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DCS Series Flight Sims => DCS Series Flight Sims => Topic started by: AKA_Jstek on December 18, 2017, 09:02:36 pm

Title: DCS Map 'Wargame' Design and Progress
Post by: AKA_Jstek on December 18, 2017, 09:02:36 pm
Everyone,

I am starting a new thread here to start fleshing the design for my map design idea 'Wargame'.  This gameplay I am aiming for for this map is PVP with PVE assistance orchestrated in a MACRO kind of way.  You have seen very limited examples of this in the current Blue Flag campaign, with the AI bombers.  I plan on taking this to a much more detailed level.

Mission Statement:

The ability to setup a meaningful and action packed game experience that can be completed in one extended sitting of game-time.  Times from 2 to 4 hours for the smaller skirmishes vs 4 to 10 hours with the more extended weekend warrior types.  The ability to adjust endgame rules to either speed-up or extend game completion time.  Every game is not expected to play out the same and different tactics can be leveraged for different effect.  The ability where the player in a coalition can make high level RTS style decisions to create new objectives, consequences, and modes of play but does not detract from the primary focus of the game; to fly aircraft sorties.  The ability of the player to be able to play in concert with the AI against other Players to provide a more grand game experience and is more real.

These are my initial goals for this map/game design.  Things may change.  I will most certainly need AKA's help on this when it comes to ensuring weapon systems and such are properly balanced and of course testing.  I have an idea on how to implement this design that should be scale-able to a full map.  However, initial versions will only incorporate a few airbases to ensure core components are working as expected.

Design Bulletpoints


Here is a list of some MACRO action features I am planning on implementing.  Please feel free to add on.

Logistics -- Purchase planes, troops, fuel, munitions.  Purchased planes will have to be flown in to airbase by AI.  Troops and fuel may be sent in via trucks, c130 transports
Assault forces -- Send in ground forces for capture, Helo attacks or raids...
Defense -- Garrison an airbase/farp, (Types of troops composition defined broadly), Air Defense, Anti-Vechical, Anti-Personnel, Artillery, or balanced.
Air Power -- Fighter CAP, Fighter CAS, SEAD, and more I hope.

Then there will be additional SPECIALS i am sure..   Broken arrow for example, where airborn assets come to the rescue for example.
Action sorties will always start on the ground :)

Programming tasks to implement for bare bones development.
1.  Scores -- Done
2.  Capture Mechanic with slot blocks and more -- Done
3.  Basic resource system, Money and action points -- Done
4.  Streamlined AI by menu system, a modified AutoMon Lau code.  -- Done

Suggestions and ideas welcomed.



Title: Re: DCS Map 'Wargame' Design and Progress
Post by: AKA_MattE on December 18, 2017, 09:26:34 pm
Sounds good Jstek!

MattE
Title: Re: DCS Map 'Wargame' Design and Progress
Post by: AKA_Relent on December 18, 2017, 10:03:56 pm
Looks good Jstek - look forward to testing it :).
Title: Re: DCS Map 'Wargame' Design and Progress
Post by: AKA_Jstek on December 19, 2017, 01:35:07 am
Update:  Logistics, due to limitations to DCS scripting, Munition limiting wont work.  However, I can limit high value munitions, such as SEAD, AGMs, and others to Neutral Bases to give them a value in taking.  Perhaps 2.5 will fix these things.

Update:  May be able to do something about this, I read more into the DCS warehousing mechanics.  May get something to work.
For plane inventories, I would prefer to use the Warehousing, to keep it simple, but may have to track use via variables and with the slot locking, I have it dialed in modular so I will easily be able to lock aircraft for a coalition when they run out..

Using the event system, I can track all craft landing and taking off to count towards these values..  Will be easy enough to address.
Munitions, on the other hand will be a bit more tricky to deal with.
Title: Re: DCS Map 'Wargame' Design and Progress
Post by: AKA_Jstek on December 20, 2017, 11:58:32 pm
Capture Mechanic with slot blocks -- Done
Going to start on the AI spawn and cost mechanics using a AUTOMAN script approach so when completed, All I have to do is place the units with names and cost factors.
Title: Re: DCS Map 'Wargame' Design and Progress
Post by: AKA_Relent on December 21, 2017, 09:02:47 am
You’re making good progress there Jstek!  Let us know when you have something to test.  It would behoove you to have something small to start that tests out one or two features.  That way as shortcomings in the SSE in MP (I.e. that aren’t working for clients connecting to the host) appear, you can isolate and create work arounds in your code.

S! Rel
Title: Re: DCS Map 'Wargame' Design and Progress
Post by: AKA_Ramstein on December 21, 2017, 09:19:17 am
Update:  Logistics, due to limitations to DCS scripting, Munition limiting wont work.  However, I can limit high value munitions, such as SEAD, AGMs, and others to Neutral Bases to give them a value in taking.  Perhaps 2.5 will fix these things.

Update:  May be able to do something about this, I read more into the DCS warehousing mechanics.  May get something to work.
For plane inventories, I would prefer to use the Warehousing, to keep it simple, but may have to track use via variables and with the slot locking, I have it dialed in modular so I will easily be able to lock aircraft for a coalition when they run out..

Using the event system, I can track all craft landing and taking off to count towards these values..  Will be easy enough to address.
Munitions, on the other hand will be a bit more tricky to deal with.

Hi,

Please explain 'lock aircraft for coalition'... as often, the planes or helos and such can be used on both sides... or have a built in 'switch' to open it up for changes...
Title: Re: DCS Map 'Wargame' Design and Progress
Post by: AKA_Jstek on December 23, 2017, 11:29:16 pm
Player Slot locking.  So when an airbase is captured or is neutral, you cannot occupy the slot; aka red players not being able to take off at a recently capture blue player base.
I added additional functions where I can lock out certain aircraft types if I choose to on the whim too.  May come in handy with objectives designed to disrupt operations.  Ideas encouraged! :)
Title: Re: DCS Map 'Wargame' Design and Progress
Post by: AKA_Jstek on December 26, 2017, 05:49:11 am
Update:

Been working on the AutoMon code and I was forced to track down some template cloning issues down.  Turned out the issue was MIST, there was an oversight in their code which I fixed in this particular manner.  You can't clone callsigns otherwise, you may have ATC communication issues; hence the jets never take off.

After that was fixed, I got a working code base working, Now just getting the final menu updates to sync with how much cash and action points you go.  Thus, it wont show up on the menu if you cant afford it, then after that it will then need to filter out based on airbases and ect.

Good progress, I hope to nail the rest down so i can just focus on building everything in the Mission editor!
Title: Re: DCS Map 'Wargame' Design and Progress
Post by: AKA_Ramstein on December 26, 2017, 05:59:21 pm
there, I think, are some DCS pilots who either make or use ATC scripting.... I have seen threads about lots of ATC stuff...

btw, I saw you on DCS in TS, but you don't answer.... anyways... keep up the excellent work... will be nice to test it!  ;)
Title: Re: DCS Map 'Wargame' Design and Progress
Post by: AKA_Jstek on December 27, 2017, 06:22:11 pm
Update:

I completed the very initial code of the AutoMon code.  Its very nice and now I can focus on building the map in the mission editor.
Hope to have a version we all can test with on Thursday!
Title: Re: DCS Map 'Wargame' Design and Progress
Post by: AKA_Relent on December 27, 2017, 06:50:47 pm
Thanks for the update Jstek - sounds good :).
Title: Re: DCS Map 'Wargame' Design and Progress
Post by: AKA_Jstek on December 27, 2017, 08:20:32 pm
I need yall help.

I need to get ground unit compositions during the late 80s..  If anyone get on on teamspeak tonight to help that would be greeat!@
Title: Re: DCS Map 'Wargame' Design and Progress
Post by: AKA_MattE on December 29, 2017, 08:54:04 am
Jstek,

Were you able to get it running last night?  Sorry I had to take off, I had a few things to do before I went to bed.  I am looking forward to to trying the mission!


MattE
Title: Re: DCS Map 'Wargame' Design and Progress
Post by: AKA_Ramstein on December 29, 2017, 01:34:15 pm
me too, had to get up early and a long drive to appointment.. hope you could test, always test another night
Title: Re: DCS Map 'Wargame' Design and Progress
Post by: AKA_Taipan on December 29, 2017, 08:18:14 pm
HI Jstek,
I have the Soviet army manual from the 80's with unit compositions if that's would be of any help.
Drop me a line and I can put something together for you if you want.

Cheers

Tai
Title: Re: DCS Map 'Wargame' Design and Progress
Post by: AKA_Jstek on December 29, 2017, 09:16:24 pm
Yeah got it up after everyone left.
In the ME I had the client units misspelled with an uppercase in one of the letters for the airbase.  Was causing me all 5 he issues.  No coding issues. ..


Fixed now. ..  I'll post the files soon
Keep in mind this is very early rough to help me to future refine and or develop addition concepts...  and plus to get a breat in coding
Title: Re: DCS Map 'Wargame' Design and Progress
Post by: AKA_MattE on December 30, 2017, 08:51:48 am
Cool Time to test!
Title: Re: DCS Map 'Wargame' Design and Progress
Post by: AKA_Jstek on December 30, 2017, 03:01:26 pm
That would be cool!

HI Jstek,
I have the Soviet army manual from the 80's with unit compositions if that's would be of any help.
Drop me a line and I can put something together for you if you want.

Cheers

Tai
Title: Re: DCS Map 'Wargame' Design and Progress
Post by: AKA_Jstek on December 30, 2017, 03:02:15 pm
BLUE
TRANSPORT: UH-1H
RECON/CAS: Hawk
CAS/CAP: Harrier AV/8B
CAP: F-5E-3

RED
TRANSPORT: Mi-8MT
RECON/CAS: L-39ZA
CAS/CAP: AJS37
CAP: MiG-21Bis


--------------------------------------

--------------------
72b      120
mig21      70
su25T      200
Mi-24A Hind    45
Ka-50 Akula   150
BMP1      15
SA8      30
ZSU-23.Shilka    35
2S19 MSTA-S   130
2S1 Gvozdika   55



--------------------
AH-1W Sprcobra   115      
AH-64A Apache   120
AV-8B HarrierII   120
A-4F Skyhawk   45
UH-1C Heavy Hog   35
F5E      70
M163 Vulcan   25
M48 Chaparral   40
M1045 HMMWV TOW   50
M2A1 BradleyIFV   35
LAV-25 FSV   25
M270 ATACMS   150
M109A6 Paladin   120
M1A2 Abrams   180

-----------------

Title: Re: DCS Map 'Wargame' Design and Progress
Post by: AKA_MattE on December 30, 2017, 09:54:35 pm
I remembered this after I got off the server tonight.  Blue Flag uses a Label mod that basically uses a grey dot a certain distances.

https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=3336311&postcount=4014

This would help a lot for spotting

MattE
Title: Re: DCS Map 'Wargame' Design and Progress
Post by: AKA_Jstek on December 31, 2017, 12:35:09 am
Nice, ill have to include that!
Title: Re: DCS Map 'Wargame' Design and Progress
Post by: AKA_Jstek on December 31, 2017, 01:24:41 am
Rel and Topgun,

I uploaded the mission and the raw lua too.

The Simpleblock is a lua for the network side, and will been to be placed in a folder for you to use.  Read the readme file.
Title: Re: DCS Map 'Wargame' Design and Progress
Post by: AKA_Ramstein on January 01, 2018, 04:43:36 am
I told Jstek about some strange experiences with a few planes in the Nevada, map, mission, and script he made.. while I flew with a few other AKA pilots too at the same time on Saturday night...

A couple planes had navigation, weapons, and other issues... so last night, Sunday. The planes had none of those issues in the regular release DCS version. Not sure what's bugged, but I let Jstek know that something in the map or script caused the issues. Just an FYI.... Have a nice New Years!
Title: Re: DCS Map 'Wargame' Design and Progress
Post by: AKA_Taipan on January 01, 2018, 06:06:09 pm
What compositions do you need?
Battalion or smaller?
Types of units etc.
The Soviet army had a plethora of unit types including anti VIP.
Drop me a line and let me know what you need.

Cheers

Tai
Title: Re: DCS Map 'Wargame' Design and Progress
Post by: AKA_Jstek on January 02, 2018, 01:52:50 am
Taipan,

I am not sure.  Probably squad or battalion setups.
I am new to DCS ME editor and thus never really think if the unit compositions, most times I was an in an A10C blowing their shit up.

Now, I am designing this Wargame Game Mode.
But honestly, the way I am designing it, it going to make it so that it can be edited and content added by using the ME alone and not having to setup triggers, scripts or anything else other than the initial base setup.
Title: Re: DCS Map 'Wargame' Design and Progress
Post by: AKA_Jstek on January 02, 2018, 03:07:01 pm
Thinking 80's era.  I did find some stuff.. not actual unit comps, but there was an RTS game I used play that included these era units and ect.
Title: Re: DCS Map 'Wargame' Design and Progress
Post by: AKA_Jstek on January 02, 2018, 03:07:44 pm
Rel, you going to be around this week?
Title: Re: DCS Map 'Wargame' Design and Progress
Post by: AKA_Relent on January 02, 2018, 06:49:48 pm
Rel, you going to be around this week?

Hey Jstek - sorry, I’ve been battling the flu since Sunday, I’m pretty wiped.  This things kicking me in the butt.  Mostly have been sleeping these past couple of days.  Not sure when I’ll be back this week.

S! Rel
Title: Re: DCS Map 'Wargame' Design and Progress
Post by: AKA_Jstek on January 02, 2018, 07:49:48 pm
NP, i understand.  Get well soon.
When your better, I would like to have you look over the mission and its setup.  For err, suggestions of other features perhaps,

Topgun, your feedback too would be great.  I know yah all have other projects going on....
Title: Re: DCS Map 'Wargame' Design and Progress
Post by: AKA_Topgun on January 14, 2018, 09:52:07 pm
Jstek.  Found a copy of the old BS1 campaign.  The challenge was at the time the ONLY module available was the KA-50.  That was the only flyable aircraft.  And it, of course, is Russian.  So we had to come up with a plausible way to have US forces at the controls of a Russian bird.  No easy task.  The fiction intro is in a word doc along with the outline of the campaign.  Almost the entire first paragraph is entirely true and near the end I start weaving in our plot. 

https://www.dropbox.com/s/2ng6ss0m7uelo1m/Dogs_Of_War_Campaign_Document.zip?dl=0

Title: Re: DCS Map 'Wargame' Design and Progress
Post by: AKA_Jstek on January 15, 2018, 07:04:14 pm
Kool.

I completed updating some additional core framework items to make mission building faster and betters.

I started developing using the Caucasus Map.  Here is what I go thus far.
Backstory if you can call this one....

Russia is doing a surprise invasion of pro Russian Abkhazia territories in an attempt to annex the area.  This cannot be allowed.
Russia has established a new SA10 SAM site outside SOCHI to provide area denial to allied forces from interfering.
A convoy of freighters have been spotted with a plotted course to the old Gudama airbase.  Surveillance shows this airbase as a full complement of aircraft ready to go.
Intercepted communications have identified the airbase is waiting supplies and material with the approaching seemingly harmless convoy.

RED - Primary Airbase, Sochi.  Secondary Maykop
Protect Convoy to take Gudama
Defend SAM Site
Defend Supply Lines
Additional objectives TBA
Destroy targets of oppertuny, destroy supply lines if able.

BLUE - Primary Airbase, Kobleti.  Secondary Batami
Destroy Invasion Force Convoy
Destroy SAM site
Destroy Fuel Base and its convoys
Destroy targets of opportunity at airbases.
Defend supply lines
Additional objectives TBA.

----------------------------------
Supply lines is a fuel base, with set number of convoys going to an airbase.  If they make it, you get resources which you can use to spend on AI items.
Also, completing specials objects will grant you additional resources or unlock other specials stuff like, AWACs, bomber runs, Refueling and ect.

------
Aircraft
RED:player - su25t, mig21bis, ka50, mi8, viggen || ai - MIG25MLD, MIG21, and zu23, sa8, sa9, sa10, and others
BLUE:player - Harrier, f5e, a10c??, huey, || ai - TBA

Thoughts?
Title: Re: DCS Map 'Wargame' Design and Progress
Post by: AKA_Relent on January 15, 2018, 07:20:24 pm
Looks good, I like the story.  Although... anti-shipping is the Viggen's forte - would be perfect for Blue :).  Maybe put Viggen on Blue and add Su25A for Red in it's place?
Title: Re: DCS Map 'Wargame' Design and Progress
Post by: AKA_Topgun on January 15, 2018, 08:25:47 pm
The SA-10 is a BEAST.  It can hit targets at pretty low altitude, or up at nearly orbital altitudes ... and has a range of up to around 100 mi.  That will definitely be difficult to take out. 
Title: Re: DCS Map 'Wargame' Design and Progress
Post by: AKA_MattE on January 15, 2018, 10:18:37 pm
Looks good Jstek,

Maybe consider Gazelle on Blue side.

MattE
Title: Re: DCS Map 'Wargame' Design and Progress
Post by: AKA_Jstek on January 18, 2018, 05:37:34 pm
So I added the viggen and a red destroyer to escort those ships...

Apparently, that SAM is just out of eff range.  Apparently the SA10 has a range of 20-25 miles....
Any other SAM options for me to use??

Also, Th Viggen, I don't own, so I have no idea what weapon systems should be allowed for primary 70s-80s tech but early other tech can work but it will be umm very rare (cause its NEW :))

Wish I had a game ready version for yah to play in, but not there yet.
I did add CSAR, and Need to setup some farp bases..  Really need to setup templates for statics but dont think you can...

The gazeelle, Im cool to add too. but whats its role?

Title: Re: DCS Map 'Wargame' Design and Progress
Post by: AKA_Topgun on January 19, 2018, 04:43:15 am
SA-342M - Anti-armor with 4 HOTs
SA-342L - CAS.  1 cannon + 1 8-tube rocket pod
SA-342Mistral - Anti air.  4 ATA AAMs
Title: Re: DCS Map 'Wargame' Design and Progress
Post by: AKA_Ramstein on January 19, 2018, 03:35:21 pm
Sounds like a nice plan for plenty of missions with an aircraft for every persons likes...   ;)
Title: Re: DCS Map 'Wargame' Design and Progress
Post by: AKA_Jstek on February 02, 2018, 09:18:47 pm
Hey Everyone,

An update on my mission progress. F

The backend tech is done.  As I go, a need may show up and put something together.  Not saying additional refinements can't be had.

The mission opens up with like this.

Red has taken a preemptive strike on blue and has destroyed Senaki and the all our SAM batteries.  They followed up with a pop-up naval invasion force on their way to Gudauta, escorted by an Neustrashimy class cruiser.  The local rebels have secretly supplied the abandoned base with additional war material.  All they need now is Russian expertise & manpower to use those assets.

Blue forces airspace is nearly unprotected except for garrisoned bases.  Red's Sochi airbase is well protected under the SA10 SAM site umbrella.

Russian Bases
1. Sochi, Primary
2. Maykop, Bombers
3. Gudauta, Forward Attack/Intercept/Support
4. FARP 1
5. FARP 2

Nato Bases
1. Seniki, Destroyed
2. Kobuleti, Primary
3. Kutaisi, Bombers
4. Batumi, Outpost
5. Zugdidi Farp
6. Mountain High MASH

Red Objectives
0. Protect Gudauta and assets
1. Protect Naval Invasion Convoys
2. Capture Gudauta
3. Protect Fuel Base
4. Protect Fuel Base Convoys
5. Destroy Zugdidi MASH Unit
6. Destroy Zugdidi Fuel Reserves
7. Destroy Mountain High MASH Unit
8. Destroy Batumi Depots
9. Destroy Batumi Fuel Reserves
10. Destroy Kutaisi Depots
11. Destroy Kutaisi Fuel Reserves
12. Destroy Kobuleti Depots
13. Destroy Kobuleti Fuel Reserves
14. Destroy Enemy Fuel Base
15. Destroy Enemy Fuel Base Convoys
16. Defend SAM Site

Blue Objectives
1.  Destroy Naval Invasion Convoys
2.  Destroy SAM
3.  Protect Nato Airspace
... TBA more to come.

Blue Activatable Assets with Mission Packages Outlined
1. AH-1W Strike Package
2. E-2D AWAC with 2x F4 HAVCAP
3. E-3A AWAC with 2x F4 HAVCAP
4. E-3A AWAC with 2x F4 HAVCAP
5. F-5E x4 BARCAP
6. F-5E x4 BARCAP
7. F-5E x4 Sweep
8. B52H x4 Deep Strike
9. F-86 X3 DCA
10. TBA and more

Blue Player Craft (LATE WIP)
Kobuleti AV8BNA x4
Kobuleti F5E-3 x3
Kobuleti UH-1H x4 (CSAR)
Batumi F-86F x3
Batumi AJS37 x4
Mountain High UH-1H (CSAR)
Zugdidi UH-1H (CSAR)
Zugdidi SA-342L
Zugdidi SA-342M
Zugdidi SA-342Mistral
TBA

Red Player Craft (Early WIP)
MiG21-Bis
MIG15-Bis
L-39ZA
Su25
K50

Red AI Craft
Awacs
Mig-23MLD
..TBA

Additional Notes

Destroying objectives not only grant Command Points that can be used to allow you to activate support assets like AWACs and Strike Packages.

The enemy on the other hand suffers, destroyed fuel reserves stops the fuel of fuel to that base, ultimately limiting activity at the airbase.

Destroying Depots at the base will lock out the player flown aircraft (AI will be OK, as they are on the Tarmac Fueled)

Destroying the Depots at the player's primary airbase will result in closure of player flown advanced craft, like the AV8BNA.

All AI aircraft can be strafed and destroyed while on the ground.  Nothing spawns in so you gotta protect these assets or you wont be able to use them.
Title: Re: DCS Map 'Wargame' Design and Progress
Post by: HellCat (Sully) on February 03, 2018, 06:25:18 am
Wow ...nice work Jstek thanks for working on this!......this is for 1.5 stable I'm assuming correct?
Title: Re: DCS Map 'Wargame' Design and Progress
Post by: AKA_Jstek on February 03, 2018, 12:07:01 pm
2.5 ready.
Title: Re: DCS Map 'Wargame' Design and Progress
Post by: AKA_Jstek on February 03, 2018, 12:21:57 pm
Suggestions and additional balancing insight feedback is requested.
Its taking alot of time to wrench in all the units :)

Then there will be fiddling with all the AI behavior, which took me a long time to do independent testing to ensure they work as intended.. aka not run away at first sight of enemies like a bunch of cowards.

Any volunteers if anyone wants to contribute by writing up the briefing.  Backstory to be included, objectives.  Recon photos of stuff to destroy and what benifit in general will occur and ect.
Plus an overview of strike plan flight plans for strike packages and assets.  (In the future, i think i will have a command menu that can let you change their objective front the default.)

For example, the bomber group default is to attack maytop, but after they launch and before they complete the rally, you could change their default objective to attack another target like sochi, because the SAM site is being dealt with for example.  More a version 2.0 thing, But I want to get the inital parts of this mission layed out cause, its alot of unit and AI setup and gotta do it in stages.

So anyways, the briefing is going to have to be very detailed, cause of all the moving parts.  May provide a PDF offline version, that can be used for offline, or perhaps even Kneeboard shots??  Though I imagine the PDF would be better.. Think Blue Flag and their PDF..

CSAR is enabled, so player aircraft lost, will be unflyable until the pilot is rescued.  So suicide missions, while effective at times will have a HUGE cost.
Adding the transport module may come later, but dont want to add the additional difficultly.

I believe the transport module can be helpful in case, all your fuel reserves get decimated and now you need to have the player manually move fuel to airbases, to keep player flights in the air.
Again more a version 2.x item to implement later.

-------------
Also I didnt mention, my vision is the RED starts with a huge advantage in the start, but flying mostly Intercept planes, the Ground attack craft will become avialble when they take sochi
But dont get me wrong, the mig21 is able to do ground attack too..  I also want to not include too many advanced craft with radar like the MIG21 and F5.. So they will be avialbe with limited player slots.. If you keep them alive, good.  if not your going to have to rely on the mig15s and sabres to get the job done.

Again, it all comes down to a balance thing.