AKA Wardogs

IL-2 Sturmovik 1946 => IL-2 Sturmovik 1946 => Topic started by: AKA_Jericho on March 13, 2018, 08:58:39 am

Title: Friday/Saturday 1946 nights again
Post by: AKA_Jericho on March 13, 2018, 08:58:39 am
 @ Tai and Gos  I am requesting the wish to revisit the idea of bringing back Friday night or Saturday night  1946 , had several request for this on our team !


S! J
Title: Re: Friday/Saturday 1946 nights again
Post by: AKA_Goshawk on March 13, 2018, 11:39:40 am
I received your email and it is being taken under consideration. Let me try to dabble my opinion to address the concerns.
I'll be watching the TeamSpeak channels to see how the attendance in BOS is going.
I don't consider this backpedaling, but more so as a wish to consider the desire of several pilots to move into the BOS sphere, while
understanding it's been at the expense of those who have lost their Friday campaign missions, and have no desire to
spend the money and time commitment to learn the newer sim.
Unfortunately, it is quite an expense to get all the BOS versions and special aircraft in order to be able to stay together during missions.
IL-2 1946 still is a fun sim and extremely functional and playable.
However, this does not need to be a thorny or divisive issue. Friday's campaign missions may be reinstituted if the numbers consistently show it is still
more popular than BOS, but we need to take our time with looking at it.
The AKA_Wardogs squadron is comprised of pilots who have diverse preferences and we wish to remain so.
Those of you who want to make BOS the more popular sim should insure that you do what you can to promote
participation in whatever manner you can think of, whether it's providing training or making sure that when people come in to fly,
they are able to do so with accompaniment.
We had an incredible turnout on Sunday and the 1946 campaign mission was a lot of fun, in my opinion.
Hopefully, Taipan and I will be able to pick up enough information on how to set up the campaigns that Relent can
move totally on to fly with other squad-mates in BOS, which has been his stated preference.
Thankfully, Rel and Scorp have availed themselves to the needs of those who want to continue flying the campaign in 1946.
Several pilots are also very keen on COD, which was the sim that initially drew some away from the 1946 campaign. Only a
small handful of those continue to fly COD due to the preferential eye-candy of BOS.
These are subjective simulators and all three of the games have nice features and advantages over the others.
I hope this addresses the concerns expressed above.

Gos
Title: Re: Friday/Saturday 1946 nights again
Post by: AKA_MoGas on March 13, 2018, 01:54:57 pm
Place holder for my 2cents
Title: Re: Friday/Saturday 1946 nights again
Post by: AKA_Relent on March 13, 2018, 03:54:31 pm
Hmm, well for one I’d like to know what the pulse of the squad is on the subject.  We had a vote during the recent team meeting and Friday, it was decided by majority vote, should be used for BoX/CloD, to give squad members an opportunity to get more acclimated to more mainstream/current WW2 simulators.

What has changed?  We had a decent turnout on one of the Fridays soon after that meeting, but since then I haven’t seen much attendance on BoX.  To your point on cost, Gos, I think quite a few squad members have already purchased at least one of the BoX titles, so I don’t think that’s a big issue. Depending on the servers, you may see aircraft restrictions based on year, so it may be a little challenging to get a server where everyone can fly together, based on which version of BoS/M/K they have.

Except for recently as I’m busier in the evenings, I’ve been fairly regular going online and seeing who’s ready to fly BoX.  There haven’t been many - it could just be a cyclical thing, with spring just starting and more folks are busier on Friday nights.  Of those that voted yes to Friday for BoX/CloD, what do you say?  I’d still like to see us give it an honest chance, as speaking for myself, if we have a group of guys we could have a lot of fun learning together on our AKA server or fun servers like Coconuts Normal or Expert server’s, as they aren’t very full most of the time.  Also, I’m finally watching some tutorials on the BoX mission editor so I hope to make new or update copies of existing missions where I can put all aircraft in, for practice/training.

If we do go back to Friday IL2/46 campaign missions, just an FYI that I will still fly only on Sunday.

S! Rel


Title: Re: Friday/Saturday 1946 nights again
Post by: AKA_DerHuntere on March 13, 2018, 04:47:14 pm
S!

My thoughts are that many miss the 2 nights a week  flying 1946, this old sim has legs and many have developed a good comradery.  I believe that is important.

I voted for Friday night for BoX, and I stand by that.  But I believe we can do Saturday and Sunday nights for 1946, for those who can make both nights.

I will be making every effort to fly BoX Friday nights.

My 2 cents.
Title: Re: Friday/Saturday 1946 nights again
Post by: AKA_Big10 on March 14, 2018, 07:14:35 am
I would love to go back to twice a week campaign but doubt that will happen. And I don't see BOS gaining the numbers popularity like 1946 night does. BOS is fine and all with it's eye candy but damn if I have more fun with the old gal that is 1946.
Title: Re: Friday/Saturday 1946 nights again
Post by: AKA_Agilehunter on March 18, 2018, 09:41:13 am
I just love the flying with squad members, whether 1946, BOX, or CloD.  Just bought Kuban, and it's really cool, but not so much fun if not with my Mates!

I voted for the way things are now, but am amenable to adding another night for 1946, if enough folks have reconsidered and want to change again.

Perhaps we need a poll or something to get the sense of the squad?

Just sayin...

Agile
Title: Re: Friday/Saturday 1946 nights again
Post by: AKA_Ramstein on March 18, 2018, 01:40:22 pm
The meeting and decisions were only a few weeks ago... give it time..

and over the coming months there will probably be sales for newer flight sims and aircraft.
Hardware is a different matter. (prices have caused people problems lately, as they became unstable lately.)

There are so many pilots and servers going, everyone should be able to find something to fly any given night...
and those that need rest (me) enjoy the rest.

Just give it time....
IMHO
 ;)
Title: Re: Friday/Saturday 1946 nights again
Post by: AKA_Goshawk on March 20, 2018, 08:44:34 am
Last Sunday there were 17 people flying in the 1946 campaign.
On Friday, there were maybe three or 4 eventually flying BOS.
Hopefully this trend will continue for 1946 campaign, and that the
BOS participation will increase, but if the BOS numbers continue
unchanged, I find it hard to support continued knocking out the Friday
campaign mission and depriving so many of an opportunity to fly
with their mates. It does not leave a good taste in my mouth to see
as many as 17 people deprived of a campaign mission in order to
appease a total of 4 people to fly on BOS on Fridays.

Again, let me stress that it is important for all those who voted to
nix Friday's campaign flights in favor of BOS to put your bodies
where your votes were. I like BOS too, but there are several pilots who
no longer have the campaign to fly on Fridays and do not wish to
make the financial outlay for a new game that will take some time
to gain any level of proficiency with.   

Increasing participation in any sim that encourages and results in more
participation by the squad is not a step backwards, in my opinion.

I suggest we give it a few more weeks to see if things improve in BOS and
if not, I suggest we hold another meeting to re-address the issue of Friday
campaign flights. I understand, unfortunately, that there are several pilots
who will refuse, unfortunately, to fly the campaign if it returns to Fridays.

Feel free to respond with your comments or thoughts. If I am the only one
who sees it this way, I'll gladly shut the he-- up and just fly.

Gos
Title: Re: Friday/Saturday 1946 nights again
Post by: AKA_Relent on March 20, 2018, 09:16:29 am
Whatever the majority wants is fine with me.  Maybe those who voted to stop the Friday night IL2/46 campaign  missions in favor of leaving it open for BoX/CloD can speak up, if they so desire, about their plans for Friday night flights. I’ll go first :)

I voted to drop the Friday night IL2/46 missions. Unless something comes up to pull me away, I plan to continue to fly BoX on Friday nights, even if IL2/46 campaign missions are reinstated.  My preference will be TAW (if running), Coconuts Expert/Normal (if running), WoL, Berloga DF, AKA server, or even offline (e.g. career mode) if no one is around online.  I just like BoX that much, and there’s always room to improve.  That is an important statement - it’s not as easy as IL2/46, but the feeling of flight, engine management, damage model, and visuals are just so much better than IL2/46 that I’d just rather spend more time there :).  I only fly IL2/46 on Sundays for the camaraderie (when we’re not getting blown up by Big10 or Mo, lol), but it almost pains me to fly it, as I’m reminded of the obsolescence of the sim each time I start BoX.  I can currently only dream of the turnout were still getting with IL2/46 campaign missions (when flying BoX), and hope that it will change.

Quick question to all of those that have BoX (at least one title), but aren’t online much - do you at least/even fly using the Quick Mission builder, just to try it out and get a feel for the aircraft?  Even with the complex engine management, the aircraft aren’t that complicated to fly, once you set the prop pitch/RPM, water/oil radiators or in/out-let cowlings... just adjust the throttle as needed.

I’d love to hear more from those who continue to be hesitant about BoX (who aready own it), what’s holding you back?  We are here to help you get up to speed - talk to us! :)

S! Rel
Title: Re: Friday/Saturday 1946 nights again
Post by: AKA_Scorp on March 20, 2018, 10:50:12 am
I think until there is an AKA alternative to the IL2-1946 campaign people will continue to fly it.  As we don't seem to have anything like that on the horizon I would say open up Friday if that is what people want.

My grandson is over for March break so I won't be online much for the next few weeks but then I will be back to BoX.



Title: Re: Friday/Saturday 1946 nights again
Post by: AKA_Big10 on March 20, 2018, 11:00:09 am
First, I would like to apologise to all who are on the receiving end of my gun fire. If I am making the game un-fun for individuals please let me know, I will go fight ai.

Now to BOX
I was not happy and still not happy to see us loose the Friday night fight. I have flown both Sims and I just like the good ole classic. Hop in my plane, fire it up and go kill.

It has been what, almost 2 months now since the vote and I have not seen near the turnout for BOX as we do our campaing. There's just something about 1946 that we all love, why do you think that's some of the largest turn outs per week. Like I have said before, unless we can come up with something similar to 1946 numbers will always be low and it's just a niche for a few of us.

From some of the discussion I have heard on TS, most don't want to go into servers and be bait for guys who have been flying the Sim for awhile now. I can fly both sims well and can tell you that BOX is a harder game to master. And that is my opinion.

Will BOX ever have the capability like 1946 for a dynamic campaing that we do now?

As far as TAW goes, that setup really pisses me off. I know you guys love it. Rel, you know my dislike for it. Lol you've heard me bitch about it. Will the squad always fly allied in the server? From my few times, allied side always seemed out numbered.

I really don't get the hate for 1946, that sim has brought a lot of us together. Sure it's out dated as far as graphics go but it sure is fun to fly.

If I had to choose one sim at this current time would be 1946, it just offers more as far as maps and aircraft selection goes.

That's it for now and sorry for any grammer or spelling errors, doing this from phone.
Title: Re: Friday/Saturday 1946 nights again
Post by: AKA_Big10 on March 20, 2018, 12:30:18 pm
And also to add had they done a Pacific version like we all thought, you would probably have a lot more participation than you do now. I am not a big fan of the Russian birds.

Now we have to wait and see how long bodenplatte takes.
Title: Re: Friday/Saturday 1946 nights again
Post by: AKA_Goshawk on March 20, 2018, 12:52:08 pm
This is great, guys!n Keep it up.
Duck, Wayno, Jug, Dash, Wiley, Rage, Grey, TG,,,,et.al.
Let's get your input too, please.

Gos
Title: Re: Friday/Saturday 1946 nights again
Post by: AKA_Relent on March 20, 2018, 01:21:10 pm
First, I would like to apologise to all who are on the receiving end of my gun fire. If I am making the game un-fun for individuals please let me know, I will go fight ai.
No worries Big10 - by flying as well and coordinated as you and Mo do, it's forcing us to get more disciplined about flying as a team to cover each other.  It's not as easy to do with most of the Japanese planes, since the F4U can out run most/if not all of them, but we need to try!

...unless we can come up with something similar to 1946 numbers will always be low and it's just a niche for a few of us.
I hear you, Scorp is saying pretty much the same thing, which I do agree with to a point - it's just that we need to find some sort of consistent substitute where we can all have fun together as a group.  One extra comment though - with BoX, and the coop-type dogfight server missions Scorp put on the AKA server (which I've modified most to include all BoX aircraft), we can have some fun together (just AKA!) to fly these, being that there is decent AI to fly against.  If nothing else to try flying together more, on the same TS channel, etc.

From some of the discussion I have heard on TS, most don't want to go into servers and be bait for guys who have been flying the Sim for awhile now. I can fly both sims well and can tell you that BOX is a harder game to master. And that is my opinion.
I completely agree, see previous comment above - we don't have to fly TAW, WoL, etc., there are options.

Will BOX ever have the capability like 1946 for a dynamic campaing that we do now?
It has the capability now, it's just that it requires our brains to have the capability to create/edit missions, or figure out how to generate them ala Scorp's '46 generator and campaign manager.. takes time, smarts (friggin complicated) and persistence!

As far as TAW goes, that setup really pisses me off. I know you guys love it. Rel, you know my dislike for it. Lol you've heard me bitch about it. Will the squad always fly allied in the server? From my few times, allied side always seemed out numbered.
I hear you, we flew German a couple rounds ago, of course then the German side seemed out numbered when we flew (why is that? LOL).  But it is the most challenging - if others are trying to fly BoX more, and don't want to fly TAW, I have no problem trying other servers that are easier.  But first, guys need to show up, if they don't, then I'll go back to the TAW's/Coconut's/WoL's/etc...

I really don't get the hate for 1946, that sim has brought a lot of us together. Sure it's out dated as far as graphics go but it sure is fun to fly.
Not really a hate, I still fly it (and it is fun with theaters that aren't included in Box, like the Pacific right now), just that all things being equal, I get more enjoyment out of BoX (esp if there are decent numbers of AKA to fly with)

Title: Re: Friday/Saturday 1946 nights again
Post by: AKA_Wiley on March 20, 2018, 04:01:09 pm
 On the subject of staying even longer in 46 Gos you really don't want my honest input.......................
Title: Re: Friday/Saturday 1946 nights again
Post by: AKA_Greywolf on March 20, 2018, 05:23:17 pm
I think Big 10 hit on most of the problems with BoS currently. Yeah the eye candy is great, the a/c performance is different from 1946 but it's workable. The biggest issue I have with the new BoX series is in the multiplayer and lack of an AKA type of campaign. As Big 10 mentioned, going onto some of these servers and getting my arse whacked by some 15-16 y/o eastern european with no life other than BoX is not my idea of a fun time. BTW, I'm sure that kid is laughing his ass off along with his rocks on shooting down a smug old guy like myself.

The campaign aspect and lack of it in the BoX series is problematic. Also a distinct lack of American aircraft and European maps are an issue. Until the game designers get a handle on some of these issues for our style of campaign 1946 works and works well. From what I have seen the developers are working on it, they added a new multiplayer coop feature which I am still trying to figure out. But I did order the new Bodenplatte version! They seem to be thinking ahead of adding more western aircraft. I also hate the russian birds.

You asked for my input Gos and while I think BoX is the way of the future, until they get their act together your still going to have some guys that want to stay with the old dependable 1946 for our campaigns. Not sure why some guys just decided to put it down just for the sake of going to the latest and greatest. Sort of like throwing the baby out with the bath water IMHO.

S! Grey
Title: Re: Friday/Saturday 1946 nights again
Post by: AKA_Goshawk on March 20, 2018, 05:25:03 pm
Wiley, that is where you are mistaken.
I'm seeking input, although I know you don't even have 1946 loaded. Your input is just as important as anyone else's. Please give us your thoughts, so others can also benefit from it.
Thanks.

Gos
Title: Re: Friday/Saturday 1946 nights again
Post by: AKA_TG on March 20, 2018, 06:03:27 pm
I have to say I like 1946 even though its outdated and arcade like by todays standards.
But one thing always impresses me about 1946 and thats its stability. No issues , hours of game play and nary a glitch.

I sure wish BOS was evolving faster than it currently is. I think the reason we all aren't getting into it more is that for a lot of us older timers the game play in some of the servers basically sucks most of the time. We really don't have the tools to make and host our own missions and campaigns yet.
I hope that changes soon with bodenplate.
Title: Re: Friday/Saturday 1946 nights again
Post by: AKA_MoGas on March 20, 2018, 06:11:08 pm
I want to add my thoughts on this matter but I just dont know where to start.. I feel we are being pulled apart somewhat..Thats not good..
Title: Re: Friday/Saturday 1946 nights again
Post by: AKA_Goshawk on March 20, 2018, 06:51:41 pm
I feel we are being pulled apart somewhat..Thats not good..

I understand the feeling, Mo, but that's all right. Keep in mind that the Wardogs have varied interests and there's nothing wrong with that. I think it's really cool that we have people representing the squadron in the various sims, BOS, 1946, COD and DCS. The fact that we have a diverse group has attracted some very special pilots to the squadron over the years. The current issue is primarily to determine if we re-establish the Friday night 1946 campaign flights until such time as bugs are worked out of the other sim(s) or until others get more flight time into the newer sims. There is no reason the squad has to be torn apart because of people having to choose between 1946 and/or BOS, although there are some very strong opinions being voiced.
The fact that many of us have been flying together for up to 20+ years says a lot about who we are as a squadron.
I keep thinking of Blasto, who has been solely representing the squadron on the ATAG server with COD for years and is held in very high esteem by those flying with him from other squads. Wiley and Rel and a couple others have been well representing the squad on BOS servers, while Top, Clutter, Rel, Ram and others have been representing the squad on the DCS servers. AKA_Clutter even won a worldwide competition for creating an online campaign for DCS when it first came out with Black Shark. Remember?
I don't think you will find this diversity in many other squadrons out there and we just want to make sure we did not stop the Friday missions prematurely. I've received feedback that some felt as if they were left out in the woods when half of their missions were cancelled.
Please feel free to post your thoughts, Mo. They are important, although they may take a while to type and read. LOL

Gos
Title: Re: Friday/Saturday 1946 nights again
Post by: AKA_Rage on March 20, 2018, 07:27:05 pm
I like BOX but with the issues I have had and know some others have, I think we should we need to go back to flying 1946 again with Friday's and Sundays until Box gets going and more of bugs are worked out. Rage.
Title: Re: Friday/Saturday 1946 nights again
Post by: AKA_Scorp on March 20, 2018, 07:28:33 pm
On thing I would say is that someone who flies the 1946 campaigns should takeover designing and organising them.

Rel has a load of campaigns on the server so if designing is too much work they could just be rotated using the existing ones.  My work finished with this quite a few years ago and Rel took up the reins and has done an incredible job.

Title: Re: Friday/Saturday 1946 nights again
Post by: AKA_Skewer on March 20, 2018, 07:59:13 pm
<S> all
Thanks for the sitrep Gos.
The Sunday (my Monday 12.00 in NZ)  is more achievable for me than the Friday (My Saturday 13.00 with its family events) which I can arrive at late if at all. As a timezone outrider I appreciate that my situation is a minority one and happily accept the consequences of that.
I enjoy the 1946 campaign greatly and will be there anytime I can. Will continue support that strongly.
Cliffs of Dover feels such a great sim I am hugely attached to that and its great to see other AK's giving it a whorl.
I have BOS and BOM now and I'm starting to put time into gaining proficiency in that, so might manage to participate there soon if it goes that way.
Regards
Skewer
Title: Re: Friday/Saturday 1946 nights again
Post by: AKA_Goshawk on March 21, 2018, 09:07:37 am
On thing I would say is that someone who flies the 1946 campaigns should takeover designing and organising them.
Rel has a load of campaigns on the server so if designing is too much work they could just be rotated using the existing ones.  My work finished with this quite a few years ago and Rel took up the reins and has done an incredible job.
Nice idea, Scorp. I'm definitely for that. If you or Rel can let me know what is needed to restart any of the existing campaigns, I'd be happy to get those going as needed. You two have been the backbone for our campaigns and it goes without saying that the campaigns would never have been created without all of your efforts. I believe Taipan has been trying to learn what is needed to recycle the old campaigns. There should be a few of us able to handle that duty for you and Rel as you dedicate your time to the newer sims. I'll be happy to take this on along with Taipan.
Anyone else want to learn this in order to be available in a pinch?
Thanks, guys!

Gos
Title: Re: Friday/Saturday 1946 nights again
Post by: AKA_Wayno on March 21, 2018, 01:52:41 pm
 >:(I try not to discourage anyone because of my peculiar standpoints. But:
1. I have been to Box on several (3)Friday nights, and no one was there from AKA ,1700 to 1800 Pacific.
2.I don't like to fly foreign airplanes in any sim, but I can adapt in 1946 because we have been doing 46 for so long.
3. I can't read or understand the "dials" in the foreign Airplanes.
4.I find the graphics and the function of the aircraft just as good in 1946 as I do in Box. No simulator will ever fly as well, or, feel the same as a real airplane. Ask any pilot.
5.I enjoy 1946 because I have been flying with all of you guys for what, 15 years? There is camaraderie and a history in 1946!
6.I find the limits incorporated into Box False. Real airplanes don't burn up after take off power for 2 minutes, instead real warplanes fly on max power for at least 15 minutes. Also, no real airplane goes into a series of ground loops right out of the Chocks before the RPM reaches 800 RPM or after for that matter.. These are errors incorporated into the game by software guys who talk to pilots who never flew the airplanes, or read books that are inaccurate.
7. I can adapt to whatever the Squadron decides, I have all ways done so in the past. I am getting older, to the point of quitting the wars. Perhaps that makes me less adaptable now.
8.Seventeen pilots on Sunday nights can't be all wrong!~
9. I appreciate the efforts of all the Key drivers of the AKA. You all can take credit for our great history together!

Wayno sends...
Title: Re: Friday/Saturday 1946 nights again
Post by: AKA_Goshawk on March 21, 2018, 02:21:00 pm
Thank you, Wayno. As one of two actual military pilots in our squadron who have actually flown several of the planes modeled in these sims, your insights are extremely valuable!
Thanks to you and Duck for your service! We are really fortunate to have you in our squadron.

Gos
Title: Re: Friday/Saturday 1946 nights again
Post by: AKA_Wiley on March 21, 2018, 02:33:10 pm
 S! Alright my opinion,first COD, I flew COD for 5 years, I and a few other aka flew many Campaigns in the SOW server for years and for the last Campaign I was an Axis admin, so I have more info on COD than you may know, that few of us then flying COD tried to get more AKA to fly COD but that too didn't happen,similar to whats going on now with BOX,the problem with cod is the atag server is all there is left, a little of that server goes a long way,the numbers don't lie, COD particapation numbers for all pilots are way down from a couple years ago, there was harsh words between No54sq Phil, Reddog, Dietrich and the ATAG bunch,it was Phil,reddog and dietrich who provided and created the SOW Campaign, whom I got to know very well,very nice guys, with no SOW campaign there is no reason to continue with COD as all atag is,for most  fly to the nearest enemy base on the deck furball rinse repeat....there are very few squadrons left that still fly COD lots of newbies  but most of the squads have moved on,as for BOX ,TAW server is the closest thing to a real Campaign going right now,i left COD because of the reasons stated not because of eye candy or anything else,i  flew IL2 46 for what 12-14 years?,EAW before that and Air Warrior in the mid nineties ,I think that when Forgotton Skies fell apart and then our own AKA Campaign ran out of opposition,which left AKA flying against AKA that should have been a sign its time to move on,i fly "with" my squad mates not against them,and  AKA has been for years  flying against itself just to keep going in 46,with only a few moving on to newer sims sorry but that's not my thing,when flying  BOX TAW specifically you are flying with and against some of the best sim pilots/squads from around the world. I am one the the AKA that have been flying with a few of you for 20+ years online,progress moves forward,sometimes painfully,kicking and screaming all the way,but it still continues to move forward  that's just the way it is.
Title: Re: Friday/Saturday 1946 nights again
Post by: AKA_MoGas on March 21, 2018, 03:48:02 pm
Then where are all the people that voted to fly BOX friday nights at?????? Cause I haven't seen enough to justify the switch.. And why all the Fn hate for 1946..because it old? Because we are now flying against other aka?? Hell thats damn good practice. There some fine sticks in AKA...I dont know. I got tired of COD because it became the same old same old..I know people will say that is the case for 46. but its really not. I flew alittle bit of that TAW. I did not like it at all.. Back to Friday nights. Are we only going to fly BOX when a certain camp is up and running? I think the vote for the switch was premature..maybe not.
Title: Re: Friday/Saturday 1946 nights again
Post by: AKA_Wayno on March 21, 2018, 03:59:14 pm
 :)Hey Wiley, I have had some great times flying with you, and I always wondered why you are always the first to bale, when a new sim appears. Thank you for letting me know.
We just don't provide enough competition for you. I can understand that. Rel and some others are also in that category and I never thought of that. And you are right, for some people they may just want to move on to more competition. Some of the rest of us just don't feel that way. Getting too old probably. I wish you luck.

Wayno sends...
Title: Re: Friday/Saturday 1946 nights again
Post by: AKA_Wiley on March 21, 2018, 04:31:29 pm
 S! I also remember having fun flying with you Wayno,your knowledge,and having really been there is priceless, You are partially right Wayno in regards to me,i do enjoy flying with-against pilots from all over the world,and the challenge of being successful,but that's not all of it,I am a Union Carpenter Foreman,i have for 25 years run crews of men,heavy challenges go with the job every day and you have to be able to wear many hats in Supervision,from motherhen to scolding and worse figure, and after dealing with this every day I just don't care to fight against my fellow AKAers,no disrespect is meant out of any of this to anyone,just an opinion that's it,and a minority one at that,if the majority wants Friday 46 then so be it.
Title: Re: Friday/Saturday 1946 nights again
Post by: AKA_Relent on March 21, 2018, 05:17:36 pm
Some good stuff here, it's great to see as many contribute as we have, hopefully more will share their thoughts who haven't yet.

As stated, I'm OK with bringing back IL2/46 campaigns to Friday night, if that's what the majority want (again, there's no IL2/46 hate :) ).  The fact that Scorp (and I will try to help) is looking into setting up an AKA CONTROLLED (I think that is the key) BoX campaign is probably the most important task for getting more folks into BoX.  We can control the participants (via password, or maybe we can require some sort of registration eventually), so most guys who are feeling like fish bait won't have to feel that way - well, except for those in AKA who fly BoX well, obviously :) ).

At the end of the day it's all about choice.  If I have a choice between IL2/46 and BoX on Friday night, I'll choose Box.  If we have a BoX campaign set up that we control, much like the IL2/46 campaigns, then it may draw more folks into choosing/flying BoX.  Once there is critical mass of BoX vs IL2/46, then things may change in that direction.

S! Rel
Title: Re: Friday/Saturday 1946 nights again
Post by: AKA_Big10 on March 22, 2018, 09:08:27 am
Rel, if you and Scrop can figure out a way to make a campaign for BOX similar to what we have in 1946 then I would have no problem in flying it.

I cannot see myself making a full commitment to TAW when it comes back. 30 mins in that is enough for me.

When WOL is at it's max players, I have some lag and warping issues that leave me frustrated.

Good luck to figureing out the mission editor for BOX I looked at it briefly and closed it quickly. Lol.
Title: Re: Friday/Saturday 1946 nights again
Post by: AKA_Greywolf on March 22, 2018, 09:18:41 am
I agree with Big 10's comments and Rel's thoughts on BoX. I think the short little escapade we had last night with quite a few guys trying BoX. It sort of showed the shortcomings that BoX has in the multiplayer dogfight or coop area right now.

While BoX is still somewhat new, it has it's shortcomings especially with the new update release combined with the lack of what appears to be UPDATED servers and aircraft.

Il2 1946 still has it multiplayer over BoX.

BTW, where are all these BoX servers located? Is the Master Server only in Eastern Europe?

Also how did the Master Server workout in the movie Tron  :o

Title: Re: Friday/Saturday 1946 nights again
Post by: AKA_Dash on March 22, 2018, 12:13:42 pm
BTW, where are all these BoX servers located? Is the Master Server only in Eastern Europe?

90% of them are located in Eastern Europe. Mostly in Russia. Some say they are all located in a gulag, which would explain the horrendous latency times =P

The short comings of BoX are plenty. I mean that with no disrespect to anyone who enjoys the game, but I have analyzed BoX on a level most people aren't able to do. There is just too much fuckery afoot in one shape or another, right down to the coding. Knowing that on top of the business model of making you pay for more and more is really showing the direction the developers intend to go with the game. If anyone genuinely cares to hear about my analysis of BoX I will gladly do so in teamspeak as typing it all out is just too much and I don't want to upset anyone that fully supports BoX.

I have seen the "plan" (as they have publicly laid it out) to continue releasing things in different theaters and believe you me, this business model is set up to where they are going to try and get multiple hundreds of dollars out of each and every one of us just to get the "base" stuff. I just don't see how a squad can have longevity with a game thats all about buying the next "gimmick". Especially when BoX is nothing more than 1946 with graphical improvements and VR support. A lot of you may not see it that way but thats facts. Simple start of an engine is one keystroke. When starting and aircraft there is a hud prompt that says "manually pumping fuel", as it automatically does it for you. Its not even on par with Cliffs of Dover, yet they are wanting you to pay exponentially more for it. I can't get behind that as much as the new gimmicks are looking good.

As far as Friday being a 1946 night, count me in. Love flying with this group, glad I joined. I thought these types of groups died out with the Combat Flight Simulator era because thats honestly the last time I saw a squad with this kind of cohesion.
Title: Re: Friday/Saturday 1946 nights again
Post by: AKA_Goshawk on March 22, 2018, 12:41:44 pm
Thanks for your input, Dash. You make a lot of sense. I really feel sorry for those of us who cannot always afford to buy all the add-ons and special planes, not to mention the versions. I'm don't see this trend in the flight sims changing, however.

Gos
Title: Re: Friday/Saturday 1946 nights again
Post by: AKA_Dash on March 22, 2018, 12:56:00 pm
I don't see this trend in the flight sims changing, however.
Gos

Unfortunately, I agree with you.

Why have they continued this trend? Because they can and we (the flight sim community) have spoken with our wallets and chose to perpetuate it.

DCS was the first to start this trend, HOWEVER, I feel that DCS has more of a right to do this than BoX thats for sure. They put way more time into each and every aircraft and delivered on a level no other sim has done.

Then Rise of Flight jumped on this band wagon (Same studio as BoX) to see if they could get away with it. Not even remotely putting the amount of effort into aircraft, but still sold it as if it was DCS caliber work. Did it work? Yes, it did. But where is Rise of Flight now? Deader than dead. (Yes I know people still play it but you get my point, its numbers are low)

When you base a "simulation" product around buying the next latest and greatest thing you have set up a construct where you have to continue to deliver the next thing instead of improving whats existing. This also allows for a "pay 2 win" aspect and coding fuckery. Just look at War Thunder for example. Its clearly some sort of propaganda move that Gaijin is able to profit from. How is it that every Russian asset made by Russian game developers is better than every other asset regardless of history?

Not to mention the type of childish crowd this particular scheme attracts. The BoX forums are so toxic and get really defensive anytime something gets mentioned that even remotely goes against the developers created reality even with period correct documentation. Out of respect I'm not going to flat out say whats on my mind with BoX, so I'll put it in a way where you can draw your own conclusions..

Just look at all the parellels I've mentioned with War Thunder, BoX, and RoF and look at the similarities in how they are trying to profit, long term game plans, clear inaccurate depictions, who the developers are, and ultimately where the game is at now. Take all this information and come to your own conclusions. Whatever you decide is your choice. Again, no offense to anyone. If you enjoy BoX, great, more power to you. Thats all that matters.

Salute
Dash
Title: Re: Friday/Saturday 1946 nights again
Post by: AKA_Scorp on March 23, 2018, 11:05:58 am
I'm nut sure if Dash was involved in flight sims in the early 2000's but Gos your memory must be fading.  IL2 Sturmovik under Oleg Madox used exactly this sales model from 2001 to 2006.  IL2-1946 didn't just appear out of thin air in 2006.  The original members of AKA and those who joined in that period all bought every version of the game.

IL2 Sturmovik
Forgotten Battles
Aces Expansion Pack
Pacific Fighters
PE2
IL2-1946

I just looked at one of the boxes and it had a $60 price tag.  If you didn't buy the latest version you couldn't fly online, all the servers switched to the latest version overnight.

As for the forums, they were far more toxic than anything you see now and worse still worse were the arguments that we went through when trying to set up a campaign, do any of you remember what that was like.

For whatever reason (maybe coders are cheaper in Russia) almost every combat sim development company is based in Russia (just like the original IL2).  Try to buy any consumer electronics that isn't made in China it is just how the world is right now.

The way successful businesses work is that they bring out new products and people buy them, Ford stopped making the model T and VW stopped making the Bug (Beetle to those from the other side of the pond) .  If they don't make money they go out of business and stop making new stuff.  Do the Russian companies have a bias, probably I know I do, but when I am flying a Russian bird it sure doesn't seem that way to me.

If you don't like BoX can't stand Russians etc please don't buy any of the Box products.

The squad I was in couldn't or didn't want to adapt to IL2 when it came out and stuck with EAW.  That squad died out and I have no idea what happened to them or if they still fly online.

No body is forcing anyone to buy or fly BoX but circumstances might.



Title: Re: Friday/Saturday 1946 nights again
Post by: AKA_Goshawk on March 23, 2018, 11:19:49 am
Good points, Scorp. You're right. I had forgotten that I spent $$$ for several updates to the game over the initial few years the game was new(er).
That, in perspective, takes a LOT of my chirping about the expense of BOS out of the picture.
So, that all said, I plan on learning BOS and support going to BOS once it is campaign capable.
Until then, I think it would be advisable to see if those who currently fly the campaign (which appears to be significantly higher than those with BOS) would prefer to keep it at 1 mission per week or return to 2 nights per week.

Gos 
Title: Re: Friday/Saturday 1946 nights again
Post by: AKA_Dash on March 23, 2018, 11:38:40 am
I've been involved with flight sims since the mid 90's.

This business model vs 1946 business model are very different. Listing the expansions that you have mentioned came with entire packs, multiple maps, multiple campaigns. They didn't charge you $20 for a single aircraft, or $10 for a single campaign.

This points right back to what I was saying.. They are planning on attempting to make multiple hundreds of dollars from each and every one of us, just to have the completed base game. And still be missing "essential" aircraft and maps.

This is the model I take issue with. Leaching.

But at the end of the day my post finished with, if you like battle of stalingrad, then thats on you, and thats all that matters.

Salute.
Title: Re: Friday/Saturday 1946 nights again
Post by: AKA_Taipan on March 23, 2018, 12:39:18 pm
OK Gents,
Time for me to chime in.
Some good points have been brought up in this discussion.
It appears to me that there are more chaps that seem to enjoy 1946 than BOX at the present time.   
That said, I would suggest we discuss how we want to proceed.  As I see it we have a couple of choices.

1. Reinstate the Friday night campaign.  (This would still allow those who want to fly BOX to do so but allow those who want to fly 46 to do so as well) Then review the BOX situation once it is to a more acceptable standard should you wish to do so)

2. Leave the Friday night the way it is to see if there is more participation. (Which I don't see happening in the immediate future)

It makes sense to me to do what the majority want so I put to you, would you like to take another vote on opening Friday nights to the 46 campaign again?

Cheers

Tai
Title: Re: Friday/Saturday 1946 nights again
Post by: AKA_Wiley on March 23, 2018, 01:52:38 pm
 Well said Scorp,i wish I could have said it as you did because that's exactly the way I feel as well.................. I do remember very well the arguments over plane sets etc during our years running Forgotton Skies,most of you didn't have to deal with all that shit,just show up and fly,but those of us who were admins dealt with this every campaign for the benefit of all who participated,i too am concerned about AKA fading away because of refusal to progress with the times that would be a damn shame.......... Ive seen comradery mention in other threads concerning 46, ,any particular reason that comradery couldn't be found flying newer sims?
Title: Re: Friday/Saturday 1946 nights again
Post by: AKA_Relent on March 23, 2018, 02:11:52 pm
I was sort of holding my tongue (those that know me know how hard that is for me! :) )...

But I’m glad Scorp chimed in as I have the same view, so it saves me some typing.

To me, it’s the exact same business model, but we are getting less “per release” IMO because of the increase in effort required to give us higher fidelity aircraft models, terrain and features than we got before.

Remember EAW and Janes WW2 fighters, probably the last high fidelity (at that time) flight simulators produced in the US around 1998 (also Microsoft flight simulator Pacific around the same time frame, but I didn’t care for it much myself)!?  WW2 Fighters was just one release, and it had one terrain and either 6 or 8 fighters - that was it!  I don’t recall it being patched or bugs fixed, etc. EAW May have been patched, don’t recall now, and the community cracked the code/binary files so that was how we got new aircraft, not from microprose.

Since then the only WW2-themed simulations have all been from Russia - the original  IL2 series, the IL2/BoX series, and EA/DCS.   I’d love to see another US based flight sim with as high fidelity graphics, terrain, etc, that has a set one time up front cost - for as much as we’ve gotten with either IL2 series, but it won’t happen.  It takes a lot of time and effort and $$ to produce a flight sim.  If a company wanted to produce a flight sim with as high a fidelity as BoX or CloD, with many theaters (maps), and many (e.g. 30+ like BoX has now), all at once, with one fixed price, it would either go bankrupt 30% into the effort, or if it was rich, would lose money for 2-5 years while paying its developers and getting nothing from the buying public in return.

This is the new reality in flight sims (producing smaller numbers of aircraft/maps/theaters at a time, to get something to market), regardless of what country develops it.  We are seeing these flight sims from Russia more than likely because their developers are paid a fraction of what they are here in the US (looking at the exchange rate of the Russian ruble).

I for one am grateful that these Russian companies have continued to produce combat flight sims. Where would we be now if there was no IL2, CloD, IL2/BoX or DCS?  A lot more bored I’d think! :).  Are they perfect? Of course not!  But from what I can see, they are at least actively trying to fix issues and are impacted by community input, and come up with new theaters/maps/aircraft for us to enjoy.

Lastly on price - considering IL2/BoX goes on sale every couple of months, the price doesn’t seem that bad for what you get. If you can wait a little, the premium versions of these titles eventually get discounted to 50% off (BoS for sure, BoM is old enough that it should as well).  So for $40 I can get 10 aircraft, or $4 each, plus a new map (in some cases multiple versions for different seasons).  One plane for a Grande Frappachino at Starbucks is a pretty decent deal to me :).  DCS is where I feel more pinch on the pocket book, $40 may get you one aircraft (on sale), if you’re lucky.

I guess I’ll just continue to fly with the small BoX AKA crew and enjoy the great visuals, etc. 

Happy Friday :)




Title: Re: Friday/Saturday 1946 nights again
Post by: AKA_BUCKY on April 04, 2018, 06:37:59 pm
Wow, just read this discussion thread.... been on vacation. It's interesting to note that many of us were flying through the formation of flight sims.  I started flying in 2001 having just bought my 1st home computer in May of 2000.  What I look back on now are 2 retrospectives. The first is that there were these guys, you guys, that I could fly with on a regular basis.  This was a level of immersion that I knew had to have happened in RL. And it is still as satisfying today as it was back then.  The second was development.  I could see improvement. The sims got better.  We jumped to the latest sim when it was new and we helped in it's development, some of us directly but all of us indirectly.  If we didn't jump in, flight sims would have died out.  It's the sim community that has kept this going.  It's our ability to adapt, improve, and drive the process to better immersion.  If we don't participate, it will die.  I want to see VR improve.  I want us to be totally immersed.  That is why I will fly BOX on Fridays.  Change is the only constant...             
Title: Re: Friday/Saturday 1946 nights again
Post by: AKA_Goshawk on April 04, 2018, 07:21:51 pm
Well I know that there will be more guys coming over to BOS as they get more experience flying it. It is very nice that they have the sales at times to assist those who cannot afford to throw the big bucks in all at once.
I'm glad I have it and had the chance to get a few kills in it so far. Once I learned how to adjust the controls to keep them from being so bouncy it helped immensely!
I appreciate the chance to read all the opinions.
Gos
Title: Re: Friday/Saturday 1946 nights again
Post by: AKA_BUCKY on April 05, 2018, 05:25:38 am
Hey, have any of you tried to host a BOX coop with a group of us AKA pilots?  I haven't really checked this newest feature out.  Not sure how that works...
Title: Re: Friday/Saturday 1946 nights again
Post by: AKA_Greywolf on April 05, 2018, 10:09:26 am
I know both TG & Wolf tried to host one right after the last patch came out. Those that tried to join, could physically see the Coop connection but anyone trying to join got an unable to connect error message along with some sort of error number.