Author Topic: Friday/Saturday 1946 nights again  (Read 2087 times)

Offline AKA_Wiley

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Re: Friday/Saturday 1946 nights again
« Reply #30 on: March 21, 2018, 04:31:29 pm »
 S! I also remember having fun flying with you Wayno,your knowledge,and having really been there is priceless, You are partially right Wayno in regards to me,i do enjoy flying with-against pilots from all over the world,and the challenge of being successful,but that's not all of it,I am a Union Carpenter Foreman,i have for 25 years run crews of men,heavy challenges go with the job every day and you have to be able to wear many hats in Supervision,from motherhen to scolding and worse figure, and after dealing with this every day I just don't care to fight against my fellow AKAers,no disrespect is meant out of any of this to anyone,just an opinion that's it,and a minority one at that,if the majority wants Friday 46 then so be it.
« Last Edit: March 21, 2018, 05:54:01 pm by AKA_Wiley »

Offline AKA_Relent

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Re: Friday/Saturday 1946 nights again
« Reply #31 on: March 21, 2018, 05:17:36 pm »
Some good stuff here, it's great to see as many contribute as we have, hopefully more will share their thoughts who haven't yet.

As stated, I'm OK with bringing back IL2/46 campaigns to Friday night, if that's what the majority want (again, there's no IL2/46 hate :) ).  The fact that Scorp (and I will try to help) is looking into setting up an AKA CONTROLLED (I think that is the key) BoX campaign is probably the most important task for getting more folks into BoX.  We can control the participants (via password, or maybe we can require some sort of registration eventually), so most guys who are feeling like fish bait won't have to feel that way - well, except for those in AKA who fly BoX well, obviously :) ).

At the end of the day it's all about choice.  If I have a choice between IL2/46 and BoX on Friday night, I'll choose Box.  If we have a BoX campaign set up that we control, much like the IL2/46 campaigns, then it may draw more folks into choosing/flying BoX.  Once there is critical mass of BoX vs IL2/46, then things may change in that direction.

S! Rel

Offline AKA_Big10

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Re: Friday/Saturday 1946 nights again
« Reply #32 on: March 22, 2018, 09:08:27 am »
Rel, if you and Scrop can figure out a way to make a campaign for BOX similar to what we have in 1946 then I would have no problem in flying it.

I cannot see myself making a full commitment to TAW when it comes back. 30 mins in that is enough for me.

When WOL is at it's max players, I have some lag and warping issues that leave me frustrated.

Good luck to figureing out the mission editor for BOX I looked at it briefly and closed it quickly. Lol.

Offline AKA_Greywolf

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Re: Friday/Saturday 1946 nights again
« Reply #33 on: March 22, 2018, 09:18:41 am »
I agree with Big 10's comments and Rel's thoughts on BoX. I think the short little escapade we had last night with quite a few guys trying BoX. It sort of showed the shortcomings that BoX has in the multiplayer dogfight or coop area right now.

While BoX is still somewhat new, it has it's shortcomings especially with the new update release combined with the lack of what appears to be UPDATED servers and aircraft.

Il2 1946 still has it multiplayer over BoX.

BTW, where are all these BoX servers located? Is the Master Server only in Eastern Europe?

Also how did the Master Server workout in the movie Tron  :o

The three most common expressions (or famous last words) in aviation are: "Why is it doing that?" "Where are we?" and "Oh Shit!"


Offline AKA_Dash

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Re: Friday/Saturday 1946 nights again
« Reply #34 on: March 22, 2018, 12:13:42 pm »
BTW, where are all these BoX servers located? Is the Master Server only in Eastern Europe?

90% of them are located in Eastern Europe. Mostly in Russia. Some say they are all located in a gulag, which would explain the horrendous latency times =P

The short comings of BoX are plenty. I mean that with no disrespect to anyone who enjoys the game, but I have analyzed BoX on a level most people aren't able to do. There is just too much fuckery afoot in one shape or another, right down to the coding. Knowing that on top of the business model of making you pay for more and more is really showing the direction the developers intend to go with the game. If anyone genuinely cares to hear about my analysis of BoX I will gladly do so in teamspeak as typing it all out is just too much and I don't want to upset anyone that fully supports BoX.

I have seen the "plan" (as they have publicly laid it out) to continue releasing things in different theaters and believe you me, this business model is set up to where they are going to try and get multiple hundreds of dollars out of each and every one of us just to get the "base" stuff. I just don't see how a squad can have longevity with a game thats all about buying the next "gimmick". Especially when BoX is nothing more than 1946 with graphical improvements and VR support. A lot of you may not see it that way but thats facts. Simple start of an engine is one keystroke. When starting and aircraft there is a hud prompt that says "manually pumping fuel", as it automatically does it for you. Its not even on par with Cliffs of Dover, yet they are wanting you to pay exponentially more for it. I can't get behind that as much as the new gimmicks are looking good.

As far as Friday being a 1946 night, count me in. Love flying with this group, glad I joined. I thought these types of groups died out with the Combat Flight Simulator era because thats honestly the last time I saw a squad with this kind of cohesion.
« Last Edit: March 22, 2018, 02:24:18 pm by AKA_Dash »
"The difference between being a hero, and being stupid... is timing". -Unknown Vietnam Veteran


Offline AKA_Goshawk

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Re: Friday/Saturday 1946 nights again
« Reply #35 on: March 22, 2018, 12:41:44 pm »
Thanks for your input, Dash. You make a lot of sense. I really feel sorry for those of us who cannot always afford to buy all the add-ons and special planes, not to mention the versions. I'm don't see this trend in the flight sims changing, however.

Gos


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Offline AKA_Dash

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Re: Friday/Saturday 1946 nights again
« Reply #36 on: March 22, 2018, 12:56:00 pm »
I don't see this trend in the flight sims changing, however.
Gos

Unfortunately, I agree with you.

Why have they continued this trend? Because they can and we (the flight sim community) have spoken with our wallets and chose to perpetuate it.

DCS was the first to start this trend, HOWEVER, I feel that DCS has more of a right to do this than BoX thats for sure. They put way more time into each and every aircraft and delivered on a level no other sim has done.

Then Rise of Flight jumped on this band wagon (Same studio as BoX) to see if they could get away with it. Not even remotely putting the amount of effort into aircraft, but still sold it as if it was DCS caliber work. Did it work? Yes, it did. But where is Rise of Flight now? Deader than dead. (Yes I know people still play it but you get my point, its numbers are low)

When you base a "simulation" product around buying the next latest and greatest thing you have set up a construct where you have to continue to deliver the next thing instead of improving whats existing. This also allows for a "pay 2 win" aspect and coding fuckery. Just look at War Thunder for example. Its clearly some sort of propaganda move that Gaijin is able to profit from. How is it that every Russian asset made by Russian game developers is better than every other asset regardless of history?

Not to mention the type of childish crowd this particular scheme attracts. The BoX forums are so toxic and get really defensive anytime something gets mentioned that even remotely goes against the developers created reality even with period correct documentation. Out of respect I'm not going to flat out say whats on my mind with BoX, so I'll put it in a way where you can draw your own conclusions..

Just look at all the parellels I've mentioned with War Thunder, BoX, and RoF and look at the similarities in how they are trying to profit, long term game plans, clear inaccurate depictions, who the developers are, and ultimately where the game is at now. Take all this information and come to your own conclusions. Whatever you decide is your choice. Again, no offense to anyone. If you enjoy BoX, great, more power to you. Thats all that matters.

Salute
Dash
« Last Edit: March 22, 2018, 07:27:22 pm by AKA_Dash »
"The difference between being a hero, and being stupid... is timing". -Unknown Vietnam Veteran


Offline AKA_Scorp

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Re: Friday/Saturday 1946 nights again
« Reply #37 on: March 23, 2018, 11:05:58 am »
I'm nut sure if Dash was involved in flight sims in the early 2000's but Gos your memory must be fading.  IL2 Sturmovik under Oleg Madox used exactly this sales model from 2001 to 2006.  IL2-1946 didn't just appear out of thin air in 2006.  The original members of AKA and those who joined in that period all bought every version of the game.

IL2 Sturmovik
Forgotten Battles
Aces Expansion Pack
Pacific Fighters
PE2
IL2-1946

I just looked at one of the boxes and it had a $60 price tag.  If you didn't buy the latest version you couldn't fly online, all the servers switched to the latest version overnight.

As for the forums, they were far more toxic than anything you see now and worse still worse were the arguments that we went through when trying to set up a campaign, do any of you remember what that was like.

For whatever reason (maybe coders are cheaper in Russia) almost every combat sim development company is based in Russia (just like the original IL2).  Try to buy any consumer electronics that isn't made in China it is just how the world is right now.

The way successful businesses work is that they bring out new products and people buy them, Ford stopped making the model T and VW stopped making the Bug (Beetle to those from the other side of the pond) .  If they don't make money they go out of business and stop making new stuff.  Do the Russian companies have a bias, probably I know I do, but when I am flying a Russian bird it sure doesn't seem that way to me.

If you don't like BoX can't stand Russians etc please don't buy any of the Box products.

The squad I was in couldn't or didn't want to adapt to IL2 when it came out and stuck with EAW.  That squad died out and I have no idea what happened to them or if they still fly online.

No body is forcing anyone to buy or fly BoX but circumstances might.



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Offline AKA_Goshawk

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Re: Friday/Saturday 1946 nights again
« Reply #38 on: March 23, 2018, 11:19:49 am »
Good points, Scorp. You're right. I had forgotten that I spent $$$ for several updates to the game over the initial few years the game was new(er).
That, in perspective, takes a LOT of my chirping about the expense of BOS out of the picture.
So, that all said, I plan on learning BOS and support going to BOS once it is campaign capable.
Until then, I think it would be advisable to see if those who currently fly the campaign (which appears to be significantly higher than those with BOS) would prefer to keep it at 1 mission per week or return to 2 nights per week.

Gos 


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Offline AKA_Dash

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Re: Friday/Saturday 1946 nights again
« Reply #39 on: March 23, 2018, 11:38:40 am »
I've been involved with flight sims since the mid 90's.

This business model vs 1946 business model are very different. Listing the expansions that you have mentioned came with entire packs, multiple maps, multiple campaigns. They didn't charge you $20 for a single aircraft, or $10 for a single campaign.

This points right back to what I was saying.. They are planning on attempting to make multiple hundreds of dollars from each and every one of us, just to have the completed base game. And still be missing "essential" aircraft and maps.

This is the model I take issue with. Leaching.

But at the end of the day my post finished with, if you like battle of stalingrad, then thats on you, and thats all that matters.

Salute.
« Last Edit: March 23, 2018, 11:45:05 am by AKA_Dash »
"The difference between being a hero, and being stupid... is timing". -Unknown Vietnam Veteran


Offline AKA_Taipan

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Re: Friday/Saturday 1946 nights again
« Reply #40 on: March 23, 2018, 12:39:18 pm »
OK Gents,
Time for me to chime in.
Some good points have been brought up in this discussion.
It appears to me that there are more chaps that seem to enjoy 1946 than BOX at the present time.   
That said, I would suggest we discuss how we want to proceed.  As I see it we have a couple of choices.

1. Reinstate the Friday night campaign.  (This would still allow those who want to fly BOX to do so but allow those who want to fly 46 to do so as well) Then review the BOX situation once it is to a more acceptable standard should you wish to do so)

2. Leave the Friday night the way it is to see if there is more participation. (Which I don't see happening in the immediate future)

It makes sense to me to do what the majority want so I put to you, would you like to take another vote on opening Friday nights to the 46 campaign again?

Cheers

Tai


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Offline AKA_Wiley

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Re: Friday/Saturday 1946 nights again
« Reply #41 on: March 23, 2018, 01:52:38 pm »
 Well said Scorp,i wish I could have said it as you did because that's exactly the way I feel as well.................. I do remember very well the arguments over plane sets etc during our years running Forgotton Skies,most of you didn't have to deal with all that shit,just show up and fly,but those of us who were admins dealt with this every campaign for the benefit of all who participated,i too am concerned about AKA fading away because of refusal to progress with the times that would be a damn shame.......... Ive seen comradery mention in other threads concerning 46, ,any particular reason that comradery couldn't be found flying newer sims?
« Last Edit: March 23, 2018, 04:55:55 pm by AKA_Wiley »

Offline AKA_Relent

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Re: Friday/Saturday 1946 nights again
« Reply #42 on: March 23, 2018, 02:11:52 pm »
I was sort of holding my tongue (those that know me know how hard that is for me! :) )...

But I’m glad Scorp chimed in as I have the same view, so it saves me some typing.

To me, it’s the exact same business model, but we are getting less “per release” IMO because of the increase in effort required to give us higher fidelity aircraft models, terrain and features than we got before.

Remember EAW and Janes WW2 fighters, probably the last high fidelity (at that time) flight simulators produced in the US around 1998 (also Microsoft flight simulator Pacific around the same time frame, but I didn’t care for it much myself)!?  WW2 Fighters was just one release, and it had one terrain and either 6 or 8 fighters - that was it!  I don’t recall it being patched or bugs fixed, etc. EAW May have been patched, don’t recall now, and the community cracked the code/binary files so that was how we got new aircraft, not from microprose.

Since then the only WW2-themed simulations have all been from Russia - the original  IL2 series, the IL2/BoX series, and EA/DCS.   I’d love to see another US based flight sim with as high fidelity graphics, terrain, etc, that has a set one time up front cost - for as much as we’ve gotten with either IL2 series, but it won’t happen.  It takes a lot of time and effort and $$ to produce a flight sim.  If a company wanted to produce a flight sim with as high a fidelity as BoX or CloD, with many theaters (maps), and many (e.g. 30+ like BoX has now), all at once, with one fixed price, it would either go bankrupt 30% into the effort, or if it was rich, would lose money for 2-5 years while paying its developers and getting nothing from the buying public in return.

This is the new reality in flight sims (producing smaller numbers of aircraft/maps/theaters at a time, to get something to market), regardless of what country develops it.  We are seeing these flight sims from Russia more than likely because their developers are paid a fraction of what they are here in the US (looking at the exchange rate of the Russian ruble).

I for one am grateful that these Russian companies have continued to produce combat flight sims. Where would we be now if there was no IL2, CloD, IL2/BoX or DCS?  A lot more bored I’d think! :).  Are they perfect? Of course not!  But from what I can see, they are at least actively trying to fix issues and are impacted by community input, and come up with new theaters/maps/aircraft for us to enjoy.

Lastly on price - considering IL2/BoX goes on sale every couple of months, the price doesn’t seem that bad for what you get. If you can wait a little, the premium versions of these titles eventually get discounted to 50% off (BoS for sure, BoM is old enough that it should as well).  So for $40 I can get 10 aircraft, or $4 each, plus a new map (in some cases multiple versions for different seasons).  One plane for a Grande Frappachino at Starbucks is a pretty decent deal to me :).  DCS is where I feel more pinch on the pocket book, $40 may get you one aircraft (on sale), if you’re lucky.

I guess I’ll just continue to fly with the small BoX AKA crew and enjoy the great visuals, etc. 

Happy Friday :)





Offline AKA_BUCKY

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Re: Friday/Saturday 1946 nights again
« Reply #43 on: April 04, 2018, 06:37:59 pm »
Wow, just read this discussion thread.... been on vacation. It's interesting to note that many of us were flying through the formation of flight sims.  I started flying in 2001 having just bought my 1st home computer in May of 2000.  What I look back on now are 2 retrospectives. The first is that there were these guys, you guys, that I could fly with on a regular basis.  This was a level of immersion that I knew had to have happened in RL. And it is still as satisfying today as it was back then.  The second was development.  I could see improvement. The sims got better.  We jumped to the latest sim when it was new and we helped in it's development, some of us directly but all of us indirectly.  If we didn't jump in, flight sims would have died out.  It's the sim community that has kept this going.  It's our ability to adapt, improve, and drive the process to better immersion.  If we don't participate, it will die.  I want to see VR improve.  I want us to be totally immersed.  That is why I will fly BOX on Fridays.  Change is the only constant...             

Offline AKA_Goshawk

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Re: Friday/Saturday 1946 nights again
« Reply #44 on: April 04, 2018, 07:21:51 pm »
Well I know that there will be more guys coming over to BOS as they get more experience flying it. It is very nice that they have the sales at times to assist those who cannot afford to throw the big bucks in all at once.
I'm glad I have it and had the chance to get a few kills in it so far. Once I learned how to adjust the controls to keep them from being so bouncy it helped immensely!
I appreciate the chance to read all the opinions.
Gos


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