Author Topic: BOS Night Idea  (Read 1074 times)

Offline Recon

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Re: BOS Night Idea
« Reply #45 on: August 07, 2018, 05:08:58 pm »
For settings, I was thinking we were going to start with icons, but no externals as a good compromise.

I'm not flying with externals on  :)

From what I have seen from the posts in this topic there was nothing decided on settings.  There was some mention of externals on the ground but not in the air, BoX does not have those settings it's either on or off for everything.  As we are starting this thing off I have no problem with external being on as I rarely use them (except to see how handsome I look).  Personally I don't see the need for externals as I am able to see around pretty well from inside the cockpit and with icons externals are of no advantage in the air but starting with the kiddie pool settings for our first campaign is quite acceptable.

What does everyone else think?

I had said:

"We can then determine the settings.  I know that is controversial as well - so my question to the group is, do we use the same settings that you guys use for 1946 ?    Another thought is for the first campaign, so guys can get accustom to the game, we could enable icons or whatever the group decides"

I realize you weren't on comms when Grey, Mo and I were talking, and the discussion was that the only reason anyone wanted externals was Greywolf wanted them just for taxing.  Which I said wasn't probably possible but we could check.  So, it isn't possible, which means there is no reason to have externals.

The point of icons (see above 'like 1946' - which is full real) - was that they felt it was much harder to see in BoX than '46, so I said, ok we can start with icons and see how it goes initially - but externals was definitely out.

Offline AKA_MattE

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Re: BOS Night Idea
« Reply #46 on: August 07, 2018, 05:36:02 pm »
I rather not have either externals or icons.   Icons are a crutch and if folks rely on them too much you will have a hard transition to no icon servers like TAW.  BOX requires serious vigilance as the time between first spotting someone and gun range can be quite short so we might as well practice without icons so everyone can get used to cranking their necks around constantly!

Remeber this is among squadmates, so there is also the ability to debrief and go over issues/mistakes.  BOX has some quirks with spotting and people who are not used to it and are using icons are not going to figure those quirks out.

MattE
« Last Edit: August 07, 2018, 05:38:34 pm by AKA_MattE »

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Offline AKA_Taipan

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Re: BOS Night Idea
« Reply #47 on: August 07, 2018, 08:39:36 pm »
Salute Gents,
Having just finished flying the campaign tonight, I have a couple of thoughts.
First off, Scorp has done a terrific job.  So thanks Scorp on behalf of the Squadron.
It was a blast!
The open server did allow non AKA into the game and some poor flying manners were noted.
We should discuss this on TS as a group as we don't want AKA members to be put off, as some were.
I believe Icons are a good thing at this point in time and should remain available as it appears the majority who fly want them and I also think it will encourage more to fly this sim and great campaign.
Many older chaps, (cough cough) have weakened eyesight and may need assistance.  Having no icons may put off some who would like to fly this sim.
The key factor here is that we have to have fun.  If members are not having fun, they will not fly and others will be turned off.  If they don't fly, we don't have a campaign.
I know this thinking does not sit well with some but I think in order to grow, compromise must be part of the package.
We can always review this as a group when everybody gets comfortable some time in the future.
FYI, for some of the mission, I flew without icons and didn't notice a significant disadvantage.
I also think we need to provide more training for those who want or need it.
Speaking as an instructor, patient and methodical training is required on a private server where things can be absorbed.  Not on a live dogfight.
To sum up, I think we should walk first and run later!
Finally, thanks to everyone who flew tonight and made it a fun evening and to those who took the time to help me! ;D

Cheers

Tai


Sink your teeth in...Let go only when dead.

Offline AKA_Relent

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Re: BOS Night Idea
« Reply #48 on: August 07, 2018, 08:51:38 pm »
I came in late, but got to fly a sortie - was fun!  Thanks again Scorp, I/we appreciate all the time and effort you've put in to make this sim a more viable alternative for our WW2 campaign flying needs :).

Seems for now that icons are OK, as stated, it helps with those who are frustrated with the object visibility challenges and might otherwise keep them away from flying with us.  Also, externals have been mentioned, for those who have a hard time taxiing around the airfield.  While it can be a challenge, since you can generally see the airfield layout (assuming the map icon is on) by looking at the briefing map and zooming way in, it's not that difficult.  Either some slight zig zagging, or open the canopy and lean out the cockpit and you can generally get around OK.  However, if it continues to be a big deal, why not have a poll to vote on the issue (only those who really intend to fly should vote! :) ).

Like DCS and 46, it might be good to have BoX campaign night be twice a week :)

S! Rel

Offline AKA_Scorp

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Re: BOS Night Idea
« Reply #49 on: August 07, 2018, 09:52:17 pm »
It's an easy change to turn icons or externals on or off and it will not effect the campaign.  Also making the server private is an easy change so whatever the consensuses is I can set that up. 

Looking at the stats it appears we had a good turnout I am only sorry I missed this weeks mission and will miss next weeks because we will be away camping.  In my absence it looks like the scheduling worked how I hoped it would and I see that the normal server started back up.

I guess the real question is was it enjoyable and how was the plane-set was it well matched?  I'm not sure if there is a way to change the plane-set mid campaign, it probably can be done but might not be straight forward.
AKA_Scorp

Offline Recon

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Re: BOS Night Idea
« Reply #50 on: August 08, 2018, 10:14:26 am »
I'm surprised that people still do the 46 campaign without icons and externals - interesting.   I'm honestly surprised it's such a hot topic, as I was thinking BoX campaign would just be a continuation of what we had with 46, instead just with BoX.

By the way, I have learned turning off any AA helps - as the AA tends to blend things more. (Especially in DCS)

Last night was a test night and we learned things around how aircraft ferrying works, so that was good.

Obviously we need to pwd the server as I had already mentioned in the other thread that this was a private AKA and  friends server until "someone" (lol) saw this as some AKA marketing strategy (lesson learned, never do things for the marketing department!).

Back to settings: compromise means compromise.  Compromise doesn't mean "we will only do my settings", which I heard all night from both differing sides.  Right ??? Obvious both sides of the debate feel strongly about their view.  I was taught on day one you just play full real and learn the hard way.  Others find it too difficult, and then other just refuse to change .. which I get since I see many more grey hairs on my head...

Personally speaking, I do not like externals,  especially with padlock.   

As far as icons, I thought the range and identification was pretty far out and didn't really like that.  I'm not sure if we can change the server side settings for icons, like can it be set up to put a neutral color dot at like 3km away with no ID ?   (Edit, maybe friendly only ID at like 500m ? This is my compromising approach btw....lol) 
« Last Edit: August 08, 2018, 10:18:46 am by AKA_Recon »

Offline AKA_MoGas

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Re: BOS Night Idea
« Reply #51 on: August 08, 2018, 11:08:11 am »
Kinda like saying I'm not flying if there are externals on..

Offline AKA_Big10

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Re: BOS Night Idea
« Reply #52 on: August 08, 2018, 11:16:18 am »
Recon, you cannot compare 46 to BOX. It's so much easier to see shit in 46. Box has way more ground textures going on. Icons on or off does not bother me. But this is really starting to turn into a pissing conest and I am out. I get more enjoyment working on my models and then doing the 46 missions.

Offline AKA_Goshawk

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Re: BOS Night Idea
« Reply #53 on: August 08, 2018, 11:21:26 am »
Good points, all.
I too noticed some displeasure expressed by some with the settings and tried to interject this is a new campaign/sim for many AKA members and we want to encourage and assist the newbies to get them actively involved.
One concern I especially noted, however, is the displeasure voiced at the need or use of icons, because it "spoils" it for those pilots who "have already been flying the sim for several months" and feel the icons are too much of a crutch.
Hopefully, those pilots will try to be patient and try to assist the newbies as they agreed to do when we proposed turning more to BOS. Give it time and let the newbies try to catch up to your level of "expertise."
Once a complaint has been stated, trust that it is noted by all, and does not need to be the focal point of every comment mentioned thereafter.
I strongly suggest additional AI planes be added if possible, to enhance the spotting and combat experiences for all.
Thanks for the effort to get this running, Scorp!
I finally spent the time to get my twin-engine planes set up in the game. Fun stuff!!!

Gos


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Offline AKA_Relent

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Re: BOS Night Idea
« Reply #54 on: August 08, 2018, 12:23:25 pm »
.. this is really starting to turn into a pissing conest and I am out.

Hmm, that kind of talk reminds me of someone :).  Gee Big10, you’re starting to sound as thin skinned as Hang! (Kidding around with you guys, you know we love you, man :) ). Come on!  Let’s not give up so easy gents, let’s make it work.  Stop being so stubborn with everything, compromise is just that, compromise!  Everyone is NEVER going to be happy, but if most of the things we want are happening, that’s a good start.

Offline Recon

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Re: BOS Night Idea
« Reply #55 on: August 08, 2018, 01:21:35 pm »
Recon, you cannot compare 46 to BOX. It's so much easier to see shit in 46. Box has way more ground textures going on. Icons on or off does not bother me. But this is really starting to turn into a pissing conest and I am out. I get more enjoyment working on my models and then doing the 46 missions.

ditto.   I haven't flown 46 in so long I forget what it looks like, I remember the same conversations back then about needing icons so I don't know Big10.  But if you read what I wrote, I was compromising with icons and all I asked was if they were configurable, but I see how it is. 

Quote
Kinda like saying I'm not flying if there are externals on..

quite annoying isn't it Mo . :)


Offline AKA_TG

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Re: BOS Night Idea
« Reply #56 on: August 08, 2018, 07:07:31 pm »
I think if Icons are allowed in the beginning, eventually the all guys will agree to turning them off in the not too distant future, after they get some kiddie training in.

Thing is, no icons makes for a completely different game , a far more immersive one.. The choices a pilot makes depends on his eyesight and ability to turn his head on a swivel. note that in bos flying alone without icons is suicide. Surviveability goes up dramatically with icons but it is not realistic.

Some of us have difficulty, yes, but I do believe that aka bos will eventually have 'no icons', simply because of the gaming difference that it creates. No icons is far more immersive (and actually less boring) than icons.

Having said that, I agree with start out easy.  We got guys here who are still just powering up their planes and figuring out how to fly them. Its a lot to learn.



Offline AKA_TG

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Re: BOS Night Idea
« Reply #57 on: August 08, 2018, 07:09:47 pm »
PS: was really great to see a turnout last night for the testing :)