Author Topic: Need to make changes to our Squad only BoS campaign  (Read 461 times)

Offline AKA_Greywolf

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Need to make changes to our Squad only BoS campaign
« on: February 16, 2019, 10:36:19 am »
We need to S@#t or get off the pot in making a squad decision on what we are going to do in regards to our AKA Squad only dynamic campaign.

Speaking for myself only, I am done with flying the Russian birds. Next Friday I will be up in Coconuts if we are still flying this current campaign.
The three most common expressions (or famous last words) in aviation are: "Why is it doing that?" "Where are we?" and "Oh Shit!"


Online AKA_Goshawk

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Re: Need to make changes to our Squad only BoS campaign
« Reply #1 on: February 16, 2019, 02:38:25 pm »
Just what do you mean with:
"S@#t or get off the pot in making a squad decision on what we are going to do in regards to our AKA Squad only dynamic campaign"

We all agreed to fly a specific number of missions on each side in the current campaign.
If we do the squad campaign like we've been doing, you're likely going to fly one half only anyway, so please be specific so I/we can address your concern accurately. We'll be missing you on Fridays until we start the new campaign. It was enjoyable flying with you while it lasted, but we knew you were unhappy having to fly both sides.
"What do you mean by the S@#t or get off the pot?"
Thanks, Grey.

Gos


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Offline AKA_Greywolf

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Re: Need to make changes to our Squad only BoS campaign
« Reply #2 on: February 16, 2019, 04:50:21 pm »
Gos,

Really you never heard of that expression?
I thought that with both of us being retired public safety people with conservative views living in liberal cities, we would have some shared expressions. Maybe that expression is only a Chicago thing.

Well we have discussed the attendence and gameplay issues regarding BOTH the BoS campaign and the 1946 campaign with Taipan previously. For the last two week's now we have heard that we may have some sort of meeting to try to mitigate the issues. Alas, thats as far as we have gotten.

So, hopefully this will help explain the meaning of my prior post.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ic9WR7UrqtQ 

« Last Edit: February 16, 2019, 05:18:49 pm by AKA_Greywolf »
The three most common expressions (or famous last words) in aviation are: "Why is it doing that?" "Where are we?" and "Oh Shit!"


Offline AKA_Taipan

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Re: Need to make changes to our Squad only BoS campaign
« Reply #3 on: February 16, 2019, 07:41:15 pm »
Salute Gents,
I have returned from my travels.
To clarify, I stated we would fly the campaign in its entirety, then meet to discuss any changes we would like.
Regardless of any changes, all pilots will fly both sides of the campaign.
I hope that clears up any confusion.

Cheers

Tai


Sink your teeth in...Let go only when dead.

Offline AKA_MoGas

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Re: Need to make changes to our Squad only BoS campaign
« Reply #4 on: February 16, 2019, 09:03:39 pm »
Well grey...looks like you're stuck sitting on the pot. Hope you got a good magazine. May I suggest the May 1995 issue of JUGS?

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Re: Need to make changes to our Squad only BoS campaign
« Reply #5 on: February 17, 2019, 09:00:48 am »
Gos,

Really you never heard of that expression?
I thought that with both of us being retired public safety people with conservative views living in liberal cities, we would have some shared expressions. Maybe that expression is only a Chicago thing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ic9WR7UrqtQ

Grey,

I well know what the saying intends to mean, it's just that you quite prematurely used it.
We are doing precisely what we said we would do: you just want it to end before the time is up. You stated last mission that it would be your last. That's your call.
The rest of us (or those who elect to not follow your call) will finish the missions (if there are any left) then hold a meeting to discuss, as we initially agreed to do. At the meeting, you can bring up your desire to fly only on the side with the best planes and advantage. Until then,,,
So, to insure to you that I understand what your saying means, the rest of us are still shitting, so kindly keep the door closed until you hear the flush!
Thank you very much!
 :)

Gos


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Offline AKA_Clutter

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Re: Need to make changes to our Squad only BoS campaign
« Reply #6 on: February 17, 2019, 10:30:32 am »
I am "Johnny come lately" to the party, and as such, am not in a  position to say much. 
1) I understand the "flying both sides" and what it is meant to do.  And I think it is a lofty goal.
2) To make it work IMHO the plane set needs to be balanced, i.e., each side gets the same number of planes that are the best available for that side AND can maintain a balanced completive environment.
3) if an imbalance is noted then things should be adjusted.

4) if an imbalanced is caused by player participation( gross, not onesie twosie), is there a way to try and balance this.
5) I have no doubt that Scorp, Rel and who every else decided on the pane set worked hard to get a balanced set.

IMHO, the best solution would be to have EVERY one ditches BOx/1946 and come fly DCS. :-*

Seriously, my thoughts are just that, my thoughts.  I wasn't around when the plane sets were made. and I don't fly much in Box and NONE in 1946.

(and yes, I willtake a cheap kill anytime Hang wants to give me one. :-) )

« Last Edit: February 17, 2019, 11:13:23 am by AKA_Clutter »


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Offline AKA_Big10

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Re: Need to make changes to our Squad only BoS campaign
« Reply #7 on: February 17, 2019, 10:42:54 am »
 ::) ::) ::) ::)

Online AKA_Goshawk

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Re: Need to make changes to our Squad only BoS campaign
« Reply #8 on: February 17, 2019, 01:40:07 pm »
To Clutter:

"4) if an imbalanced is caused by player participation( gross, not onesie twosie), is there a way to try and balance this."

This is a great question. Once the campaign is decided on we try to determine who is willing to fly the "whole" campaign
and base the sides on those pilots. We realize there will be some who are not there consistently, and try to account for those as well.
The sides are determined as closely as possible, which was done in this campaign. After seeing how disappointing it was to have to fly the allied planes against the German it was determined early on that we would only fly 10 missions per phase. We assumed that the participants could stick it out for AT LEAST that many missions.

To Clutter and the rest:
What we were unable to ascertain is that there are some pilots who decide to prematurely stop flying, for whatever reason, which is not the fault of the side that stuck it out and retained their pilots. Perhaps a form of bribery (or justifiable guilt) can be applied by the pilots on the leaking side to beseech them to not abandon ship and leave the rest high and dry. It would not be proper for one side to arbitrarily reassign some of their side to help offset those who (trying to be REALLY tactful here) uhhh, left. Who would be the ones to get reassigned??? Especially since the more-populated side already suffered through flying the side that was not heavily advantaged in the plane-sets.

We were trying to create a campaign that would benefit everyone in the squad who flies BOS. We knew there would be a problem with difficulty settings and plane-sets for some of the guys, but we assumed those participating would try to stick it out (this would be the shitting part) in order to help make a final determination on what avenue to pursue afterwards (hence: getting off the pot).

Gos
 


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Offline AKA_Clutter

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Re: Need to make changes to our Squad only BoS campaign
« Reply #9 on: February 17, 2019, 02:26:14 pm »
... through flying the side that was not heavily advantaged in the plane-sets.

I think that is one of the problems.  And yes one side suffered thorough that, and I can see why "fair" would demand the other side do the same.  I guess the elephant in the room is , when was this recognized and could it have been mitigated prior to the end of the first set.

...
We were trying to create a campaign that would benefit everyone in the squad who flies BOS. ....(this would be the shitting part) in order to help make a final determination on what avenue to pursue afterwards (hence: getting off the pot).

Gos

??  OK so this was a TEST?  If so do you have enough data or does it need to go to the bitter end.

And I will say again, I am a late comer, so may not have much right to much of a voice.

o7 to all.


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Offline AKA_Rage

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Re: Need to make changes to our Squad only BoS campaign
« Reply #10 on: February 17, 2019, 04:06:02 pm »
There needs to be a lot of changes! Why wait till the end? Stop it and fix it and restart. These penalties are stupid, wrecking , and hitting ur own plane? I was banned for an hour! I was shooting at Bucky in the top gunners position  and he killed me as I was shooting at him and was banned for shooting a friendly? This has been a PITA from the beginning!

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Re: Need to make changes to our Squad only BoS campaign
« Reply #11 on: February 17, 2019, 04:19:31 pm »
Rage: getting banned is a REAL PITA!!! We're pretty sure it's because you were someone's tail gunner and took it upon yourself to shoot off your own tail. If it (the ban for damaging your own plane) is fixed at this time (mid phase), it would enable you to shoot off Greywolf's tail as often as you choose, which would be nice for the Axis side. However, we have pretty much stood by the policy of making no changes mid campaign or mid-phase. I suggest you don't fly as a tail-gunner.
Clutter: it was discovered early into the first phase, like the first mission that there was a distinct advantage to the Axis planeset, but we left it alone knowing we'd be swapping sides after the first 10 missions. We suffered through and to my recollection, we did not lose pilots due to the planeset disadvantage. When we were low on people, we tried to fly anyway.

Hope this helps.

Gos


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Offline AKA_Clutter

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Re: Need to make changes to our Squad only BoS campaign
« Reply #12 on: February 17, 2019, 05:59:55 pm »
...Clutter: it was discovered early into the first phase, like the first mission that there was a distinct advantage to the Axis planeset, but we left it alone knowing ….

If it was know that early, then it is more difficult for me to understand why it wasn't fixed.

I would to submit that in the future if such a thing occurs, then it is fixed on the following mission.  When sides switch they fly the same number of missions with the imbalance, but then after that fly the fixed was implemented.  Ofcourse I am sure there are dozen of conversations that I don't know about.
o7

P.S. And with that said, I will try to keep my fingers shut.  :-)
« Last Edit: February 17, 2019, 07:36:11 pm by AKA_Clutter »


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Offline AKA_Relent

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Re: Need to make changes to our Squad only BoS campaign
« Reply #13 on: February 17, 2019, 06:49:57 pm »
I'll try to keep it short...

Rage - that was the first time the ban happened.. I didn't know the campaign was configured that way (it's based on Coconut's framework, probably a default setting) and Scorp probably didn't either.  I contacted him and he's eased up that setting a little using the campaign configuration settings (e.g. shorter ban, and it takes more "deliberate" friendly fire to trigger it I think).  I'd still be careful if jumping into the gunner position :).

Regarding the campaign - remember, it's based on Coconuts frame work, so much of how it is configured is from his campaign set up.  Scorp has spent a great deal of time learning how to implement the framework.  He did add some aircraft to the original Coconut campaign, like the P39, P40 and A20 to the red side, but it's not necessarily easy to add aircraft - takes trial and error, we don't want to break the campaign by adding stuff willy nilly.  We all need to have patience - Scorp's doing all of the work on his own time (and he's retired and travels a lot), so lets give it time to evolve.

When the current German fliers were on the Russian side, yes we complained (about the aircraft performance miss-matches, and the slaughter :) ) too, amongst ourselves, and we just gutted it out, adjusting tactics and savoring the time when we could get some payback. :).  Sorry some of you are choosing to not fly the BoX campaign, but as we have typically done (as Tai and Gos mentioned), we usually don't make changes during the campaign - we finish it out on both sides/phases, then make adjustments (and see above about having patience :) ).  Flying German I now appreciate the kills I made while flying Russian, it's quite a task given the plane set...  so it was fun in it's own right (the extra challenge).


Offline AKA_Big10

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Re: Need to make changes to our Squad only BoS campaign
« Reply #14 on: February 17, 2019, 09:13:19 pm »
I wish I had a screen shot from when we were blue and not a red on towards the end of the campaign. Some of you guys have memory problems.

One evening after about and hour half of flying all red left and blue had nothing but AI to shoot at.

Different plansets need to be implemented before I fly BOX again. We shall see what the American planes bring to the table.